Ep. 286: Investing in the Next Generation

*Below is an edited transcription of the audio conversation.

Daniel Markin:

Hey, this is Daniel Markin with indoubt. And today on the episode, we are having a discussion with Shaila Visser. That name might be familiar to you if you’ve done the Alpha course before or maybe Youth Alpha. She works with Alpha Canada. And so we have a long discussion today about evangelism, but then really begin to narrow it down to Generation Z and seeing how it can better serve Generation Z, what we can learn from Generation Z. And whether you’re in Generation Z, you’re someone who’s listening and you’re seeking to how you might be able to mentor and help Generation Z, we know and believe that this episode will be helpful to you.

Hey, welcome to indoubt. My name is Daniel Markin and today I’m joined by Shaila Visser. Shaila, how you doing today?

Shaila Visser:

Good, Daniel. It’s great to be with you. We’re both here in Vancouver, which is a great city to be in, in Canada.

Daniel Markin:

It is a great city to be in Canada. Shaila, thank you for joining us today. I think a lot of our listeners might have some indication of who you are just by nature of seeing things on social media with the work you’re involved in with Alpha Canada. And so I’d love to start today just by you introducing yourself, telling us how you even got into this ministry in the first place, but why don’t you go ahead. Tell us a little about yourself personally, and then get into a little bit of the work that you’re doing with Alpha Canada.

Shaila Visser:

Yeah. So I’ve been married 23 years this summer and-

Daniel Markin:

Wow. Congratulations.

Shaila Visser:

And thanks. My husband, Ryan is a Vancouver police officer. He’s a sergeant on the east side of the city and we have two dogs. We of course got a pandemic puppy like half the Western world, I think. And then we have a retired K-9 who used to be a working police dog. So that’s kind of who makes up our family. I have been passionate since I came to faith at the end of university. My last semester, my last year of university at the University of Western Ontario, my faith came alive because someone at a very big school decided to love me in Jesus’ name. And because of that, my life was transformed. And so I’ve always had a passion that people would be introduced to Jesus in a way that I was. I was loved into the kingdom.

Shaila Visser:

I wasn’t told it was the right way to be, or I was told it was behave in this way. Live your life morally in the way. But the person who helped me understand Jesus the most actually showed me who the person of Jesus is. And I fell in love with Him and I wanted to live for Him. And so ever since then, one of the whole purposes of my life is to live a life that somehow does everything I can with the gifts and skills and talents God’s given me to introduce more and more people to Jesus. I had no idea which route that would take, but it has led me to being with Alpha for over 20 years.

Daniel Markin:

Wow. Let me ask you this then. When you came to faith, was Alpha a significant piece of that?

Shaila Visser:

Not at all. I came to faith in the mid-1990s, early 1990s, and I came then to understand more about Alpha in 1999 was the first time I really heard about it. I got involved with running it with business people, downtown Vancouver. I saw lawyers and judges coming to faith, CEOs, chairmen of boards. I was like, what is happening? It was run by Christians in their workplace. I was like, okay, this is crazy. Why is this working? And I really started to understand the values of Alpha, not how does the course work. I think lots of people evaluate Alpha by just like, okay, how do you actually run it? What does it you? But I saw values at work that personally aligned with what I saw the Bible taught about evangelism, but also it aligned with me personally. I was like, okay, I have got to start doing these.

Shaila Visser:

And it took off and I then helped Alpha globally. And I became the head of Alpha in the workplace internationally in 2006, working with business people, helping them, whether they were in multinational corporations or in small businesses. How do you create open spaces, safe spaces, radical hospitality and welcome for people that don’t yet know Jesus. And that’s what I did until 2010 when I became the national director of Alpha Canada, and God sort of swung my life to think about how do we serve the church to demonstrate and live out these values? Not just how do you run a course, but how do you live out what we think are gospel values in sharing our faith with the nation?

Daniel Markin:

I mean, what you’re saying there’s, I love that, especially with your emphasis on the local church, because I think there’s a ton of value in Alpha course where you can run this course at your church. But so many times I think churches begin to think, well, we’ll just run the course and they’ll go back to doing what we do before, right? We’ll get people to do Alpha course. Maybe some of them will come to faith and they’ll get back to doing what we did before. And they never actually integrated the hospitality, the love. It just became like a transactional piece. They do it for a few weeks and then go back to ministry the way it was supposed to be. And so I think what you’re speaking to is so important about an evangelistic heart.

Shaila Visser:

Well, think about this. Was Jesus about transaction or transformation? We know he was about transformation. Alpha could be seen as transactional. In the church, we often want to do run something that helps us to do something well. Right. That’s fine. But as soon as we understand that there’s a transformation that’s possible, and it’s not just a transaction like let’s run this course once a year or twice a year, but actually let’s see what is the transformational power that the Spirit has built into it that enables not only the people that are coming as guests, but the hosts and helpers at small tables to an experience and transformation of themselves as they create and participate in the work of the Holy Spirit.

Shaila Visser:

And really, I think one of the foundational principles of Alpha is found in actually a definition that Darrell Johnson gave to me. He’s a pastor and a theologian and an author. And he said, “Evangelism is joining a conversation the Holy Spirit is already having with another person.” And although that never came out of the Alpha world, when I heard that, I was like, ah, this is actually what it’s based on. We create an open, hospitable, loving, welcoming table where people can come bring their whole selves, bring their questions and their doubts. And everyone is there to participate in what the Holy Spirit is doing in that room, in that moment versus pushing an agenda. And I think that’s the beauty and the transformational power is that the Holy Spirit’s at the center of it all.

Daniel Markin:

Amen. And I think too with that is the emphasis on relationship, right? So the relationship with the Holy Spirit experiencing Jesus, His presence through the Holy Spirit and the experience with one another in the room in Alpha is so important. I think one of the dangers that churches can fall into is thinking, hey, if we have good theology, then people will come and people will come and believe in Jesus. But they don’t be evangelistic in it. And so if your theology doesn’t lead you to be evangelistic, I actually think you have bad theology.

Shaila Visser:

Well, think about this. We have the great command, right? We have the great command to love the Lord, our God, with all our heart, our mind, our soul, and our strength, and Jesus added and love your neighbor as yourself. We know we have the great command and then we have the great commission, which we’re all aware of. But we also have the great requirement from Micah 6:8, right, where it says to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God and at the center of it is the empowering Holy Spirit that helps us to love the vertical, which is the Trinity to be in a love relationship with the Trinity. It also then helps us. He helps us to actually live the great commission and live the great requirement. It is a beautiful relationship. And at the heart we learn who God is through His word.

Shaila Visser:

And so I just think is an interplay that we have to get back to as the church that we start with the vertical love Jesus. And then he says, love our neighbor. And we have the great commission and the great requirement. So there is a dynamic that’s happening that doesn’t allow us to pendulum swing to our favorite kind of Christian life, very heady, or very emotional, very truth based, very grace based. We have to be like Jesus. And the only one who does that is the Holy Spirit. And so he helps us to live both the vertical and the horizontal call of our Christian faith.

Daniel Markin:

And what’s interesting with that too, is that just made me think of the types of people that Jesus picks when He’s doing His ministry and the types of people He called. And I think it’s really unique because, so for example, when He picks his disciples, He’s picking a lot of backwater people kind of rough by the neck like blue collar guys to go and to minister to kind of those type of people. But then He also calls the Apostle Paul who’s like an elite of society, right? He is the next great Pharisee. He’s going to be the next… It’s just only a matter of months until he’s at the top. And the Lord snap calls him. He’s then in Athens reasoning with the intellectual elites and talking with them. And so it’s just so unique to see how God can empower different people with different giftings for that work of evangelism, because not everyone is a Paul with that intellectual expertise, but they love Jesus. And so they want to go and tell their friends about it. And so-

Shaila Visser:

Yeah. And can I just… Sorry to interrupt. Can I just-

Daniel Markin:

Of course.

Shaila Visser:

Say that’s why that understanding of evangelism joining the Holy Spirit, it does not matter what your intellectual ability is, what your love quotient on any given day is for your neighbor. What matters is that you become sensitive to the work of the Holy Spirit around you and you join Him. So I found that every morning I pray, “Come, Holy Spirit. Let me join you in what you’re doing today.” And I often have to pray and let me have enough margin to do it because my days get full and busy. And when I pray that, which is just about every day, I get to join Him and it’s remarkable. And so I think that’s what He’s calling us to do. Regardless of what your gifts or skills are, regardless of how competent or incompetent you feel, you get to be used by Jesus. He invites us and He wants to use us. And it is so much fun. I know it sounds terrible. It’s so much fun to be involved in His kingdom work.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. I think by starting your day like that, it’s a very humbling thing because you’re basically from the top of it saying, “Lord, I can’t do this. I need you to work.” But it’s also freeing because now you’re saying, “Lord, I’m not actually the one who’s doing this. I’m just going to partner with you in the work you’re already doing. So show me where I need to just jump in into your work. And may I be faithful in that?” And that takes a lot of the pressure off because I think-

Shaila Visser:

Oh yeah.

Daniel Markin:

So many times when I thought about evangelism growing up, I just imagined someone walking up to me with a pocket full of dollar bills and saying, “I have a million dollar question for you.” And they whip out the million dollar bill, “Where are you going to go when you die?” Right? And that to me has felt so transactional. But what you’re describing is a type of evangelism that is from the heart, from a place of love in step with the Spirit. And I think that’s a way we need to begin thinking of about evangelism in that different way. Well, in the way that it’s meant to be.

Shaila Visser:

Right. And I actually think that… I’m a Gen X-er, and I know that both millennials and Gen Z, and as we’re starting to get research about Gen Alpha after Gen Z, we really are starting to see that we’re rejecting methods. And my generation was the first generation that was like, I don’t like those methods of those that have gone before. I don’t appreciate the methods of the last 40 years. I hear a lot of my friends saying that. And when they hear the word evangelism, they reject a method. And so what we’re saying is, can we not reject the whole thing? You can reject a method, but can we at least see the value in joining Jesus and what he’s doing all around us? He wants the world to know who He is. What does that look like right now? And I think there’s biblical values that we’re called to that we’ve perhaps forgotten because we’ve rejected methods.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s kind of go there a little bit towards the Gen Z. But I want to just reach back. You’ve been doing this for a long time with Alpha. Over your time of working with Alpha, what has been the most frustrating thing that you’ve seen? But then looking forward, what’s the thing that’s you the most these days?

Shaila Visser:

Oh, that’s a really good question. That is a really good question. I think the most frustrating thing for me is recognizing that I, myself in the middle of Christian ministry can lose the heart of what we’re trying to do. And what I mean by that is, and those who are in vocational ministry may recognize this, is that we get so busy doing the work of leading a ministry that we forget to be in the ministry. And I’m in the ministry of reconciliation, participating with the Trinity and reconciling people to God. And so in the midst of all of that, I get so busy doing leading the team, making sure we’re serving the church well that I don’t personally get activated in evangelism. So I find the hardest person to lead is me.

Shaila Visser:

And so I’ve had to continually come back and the Holy Spirit draws me back to say, “Shaila, who is your neighbor? Who am I putting you in front of today?” And so I think that’s been the most frustrating part is I know I can get caught up in leading and not being a good neighbor. That’s the most frustrating thing.

Shaila Visser:

The most exciting thing, and this is part of where we want to go today, is I look at the next generation and I see resilient Gen Z who love Jesus in the midst of hardship. I see resilient millennials. I am so inspired by their faithfulness. I know they’re a shrinking demographic, but those that are staying and holding fast to Jesus are some of the most inspirational people I’ve ever known. I want to spend time with them. I want to be around them. I have so much hope because I see what God’s doing in their lives. So I think that’s something I’m most excited about.

Shaila Visser:

Just on a side note regarding Alpha. We are going to be launching this July our Chinese Alpha film series in Mandarin. And I just think it’s a game changer for us. So in the present moment when you talk about Alpha, I’m like, oh my goodness, we can serve every church in Canada that cares about the Mandarin speaking people that are their neighbors, their friends. Whether they’re a Chinese church or whether they run ESL programs, we’ve got something that is a hundred percent contextualized to their context. It doesn’t involve any Caucasians. It’s all Asians and it’s all Chinese people. And so we’re really excited about that. So that’s something I’m quite passionate about because we have, I think it’s 1.9 million people that have moved here from Asian countries that speak Mandarin or Cantonese, and we have it in Mandarin for the summer and Cantonese in January.

Daniel Markin:

Wow. That is going to be amazing. And I look forward to hearing the fruit of that because I’m sure I’m going to be hearing lots of stories about that. We’ve seen even at west side where I serve right now, we’ve been starting international language ministries. And so just inviting people to come and speak in their native tongue has been huge. And these ministries are busting at the seams because all of a sudden it, I can now connect with my Korean brothers and sisters. I’m part of the bigger church, but I can come and have relationship and speak in my native tongue. And there’s something… As me as a Canadian, I only speak English. Right. That is something I don’t understand, but I think it’s a beautiful thing.

Shaila Visser:

Yeah. It’s pretty fun.

Daniel Markin:

It is. Yeah. It sounds really fun. We were talking about millennials, Gen Z, and even Gen Alpha. I’ve never heard about that before, but maybe it’s helpful for our listeners to define what those are. So what are the years, the birth years that you’d say millennials are, Gen Z and then Gen Alpha? My understanding is that millennials was what, 1980 to 1994, ’95. And then I only knew Gen Z being ’95 onwards. And I’m doing that based on Jean Twenge’s work with iGen. She kind of picks ’95 as that year where everyone in their adolescent years was now in the eighth grade, grade eight grade 12. When the iPhone really picked up with the smartphone boom. So you had access to fast internet, Instagram, Facebook that sort of has transformed people in their adolescence. And so they kind of indicate, well, ’95 was the birth year of that.

Shaila Visser:

Yeah. I’ve always under it to be ’95, ’97, somewhere in that window. I don’t think it’s a fast and hard line. You probably know this with millennials. It’s true of Gen X is that there is sort of this window of depending on where you grew up and some of the societal factors make you either lean a bit more towards Gen X or millennial or millennial or Gen Z. So I think that window of ’95 to ’97, and then it runs up to about birth into 2010, 2012. Gen Alpha is the generation after that. So they were born in 2012 on. So when we think about Alpha and we think about youth and we think about the next Alpha youth series, which we’re just starting to pray and work for, we can’t just think with Gen Z in mind. We have to think with Gen Alpha in mind because by the time the product comes out, Gen Alpha’s into their 13, 14, 15 year old early high school and end of middle school and we want to reach them with the gospel. So we are already thinking Gen Z, Gen Alpha.

Daniel Markin:

Okay. So very simplistically, how would you define millennial? And then the difference between millennial and then Gen Z? And you can sprinkle a little bit of Alpha on there, but I definitely want to focus in more in on Gen Z here.

Shaila Visser:

Yeah. Well, why don’t we talk about Gen Z because I do think there’s some real differences that we need to look at. I would say that if I was to look at the two, so millennials, they want interesting work for sure, right? Where Gen Z might want an organization you’re proud of where their values align. Millennials are really interested in work-life balance like, “Hey, I have a life outside of this work.” Where Gen Z are like, “Hey, I want to do interesting work. I want to work for an organization I’m proud of. I want to do things I’m passionate about. I believe I can change the world now.” They’re not held back by it.

Shaila Visser:

They both want interesting work, but I think it’s this passion. Gen Z has a different passion and commitment to, I can do this. I can change it. And they believe it because they’ve seen social influencers who can actually make a difference in the world and shift political will, and they’re a teenager still. So there’s something about Generation Z that actually believes they can change the world. They have the ability to pull it off and it’s much stronger than millennials before it. And so I think millennials were kind of driven by growth and lifestyle where I would define Gen Z as they want growth, but growth and passion, passion for what they’re called to do, passion for issues they see in the world. And they will activate themselves whether it’s on social media or in person.

Daniel Markin:

I think that’s a really good way of putting it.

Shaila Visser:

What are you seeing? What are you seeing some things too?

Daniel Markin:

Well, exactly, I’m seeing that. So I technically am at the tail end of millennial. I was born in ’94, so I’m kind of in that blended area there where you’re saying. So a lot of my older colleagues would be kind of the millennials. And I definitely see that they’re interested in that interesting work, work-life balance. But myself, my peers, we definitely want to feel like we’re a part of something that’s really meaningful and feel like at the end of the day, we’ve done something that has helped transform, not even just the world, but maybe a corner of our world. And so I hear people talking about the value and interest of being part of the community and sewing into that small community, which sounds like from years gone by where grandma and grandpa were living in a small town somewhere. And they were just figures in the community.

Daniel Markin:

One of the things I’m seeing is even with social media and the influence of that, people feel more connected than ever. But they’re so lonely. And so the thing I’m seeing more and more and more is how lonely people are.

Shaila Visser:

Oh yeah.

Daniel Markin:

And not because they’re losers. It’s because that everyone’s sitting at home on their phones, watching everyone else’s life. We’re being catechized by our mobile devices. So TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter is telling Gen Z how they ought to be living. And everyone’s sitting at home swiping at night, realizing “I’m not living up to that,” feeling discouraged and then ultimately not jumping into I think what God has called them into because they’re like, “What if something else comes?” What if something else comes and there’s this desire to do something passionate, but I’m seeing a lot of people sitting back. Housing prices are too much. They’re like, I’m not going to be able to buy a house. So there’s this spark of excitement met with a severe chunk of hey, maybe you could buy a house when your parents die one day because that’s the only way you’re going to be able to afford something in this life. Right? So there’s a lot of goals that have shifted. And I think a lot of people are discouraged about. Almost feel like they’ve been let down by society, but don’t know where to start picking up the pieces.

Shaila Visser:

Yeah.

Daniel Markin:

That what I’m seeing.

Shaila Visser:

You know what was interesting? McKinsey did a study. This is a number of years ago now. And they called Gen Z true gen. They’re looking for truth. They’re looking for what’s real. So they value authenticity even more than millennials. Millennials already lean that way. But Gen Z they’ll sniff it out in five seconds. We talk about that all the time when we’re speaking. If you’re not living your authentic self in front of Gen Z, they know it and it doesn’t take them very long to recognize it. But they’re also looking for truth. They want to know what is true. And that really differentiates them from millennials.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. Even if it’s a hard truth, I think there’s a value with that. I see Gen Z as very skeptical of the world around them, which is something that’s unique is they’re not dumb. With the high school students that I’m working with, oh, they’re not dumb. Even the middle school students, they’re not dumb. And maybe part of that too is being connected on social media. They do see a lot of the world so it’s not all bad. It is influencing them in some good ways, but they’re not dumb. I think they are critical. And so the value of truth is essential there and especially hard truth being like calling them out on something, they’re going to be like, “Oh.” And also, “Oh, this is the first time anyone’s actually called me out on something.” And that’s going to mean a lot to them as well.

Shaila Visser:

Well, here’s the opportunity that I think whoever’s listening today if you’re not a Gen Z and you’re like, “Well, what am I going to do? I’m 65. I’m 85. I’m 55. I’m 45. How do I even relate? I’m not on my phone like they are, or I don’t understand the world that they live in.” I think the trick in the church that we’re missing is they’re longing to be loved and known. That’s what makes them lonely. It’s not because they don’t have friends. It’s because they want a safe place to truly be known, their fears, their anxieties.

Shaila Visser:

And what I found with my nieces and my nephews and my godchildren and other young people around me who are Gen Z when I lean in just with love to listen and to ask questions, they open up and it’s a form of being known because we lean in with love. And so if you’re wondering, how can I love my grandkids, my kids, my neighbor kids, my godchildren, whomever you have in your life, listen to them. Inquire. Love. Lavish them with love. And you will see them open up in incredible ways. They need safe people who are authentic with them and are trustworthy.

Daniel Markin:

So let me ask you this. Why are you with Alpha Canada doubling down on Gen Z? Because you guys are hitting this harder than I’ve seen a lot of organizations hitting it. You’re really doubling down on Gen Z. Tell us why.

Shaila Visser:

We have been passionate about teenagers for a long time. We created the Alpha Youth series in 2013, again in 2017 to reach, to help teams reach their friends with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And then this summer, as I was spending time praying and thinking with our leadership team at Alpha Canada, God gave me a real picture of thinking 30 years, not just three years. When you run an organization, you think about three year. You’ve got your three year strategy, your annual plan. And God started to give me this picture in my mind, two tracks. One is your three year strategic plan and the other was 30 years out. And the 30 years out is thinking what seeds do plant today that we may not see the fruit from, but we know we’re planting them for the long term. And when I asked the Lord what it was about, He said double down on Gen Z, invest in them, create content for them, really make sure the next Alpha film series and even Gen Alpha behind it is working for them to equip them.

Shaila Visser:

So I feel like it’s a personal call, it’s a ministry call to double down on serving them and supporting them. And so we’re going to create products. We’re going to host gatherings so that we can come alongside and say, “We believe in you. We will do everything we can to pray and support you and your youth workers that are your on the ground, people so that we can create a space where you can flourish in Jesus.” This is the future of the church. If we don’t think about Gen Z and Gen Alpha, 30 years from now, they are our pastors. They are our politicians. They are our lawyers. They are our doctors and our nurses, police officers, and firefighters. What we do today matters for the long term health of the church.

Daniel Markin:

As you’re saying that, it’s a scary thing because you’re planting seeds, but because we like to control everything we wanted to see, okay, if I do all this work, they will turn out like that. But we might only get significant small moments with some of these Gen Z students or people that we know. And then it’s sort of 30 years from now, what kind of fruit’s that going to bear? And that’s a a scary thing if we don’t trust in the Lord.

Shaila Visser:

That is our faith walk. So many of us want to see the results of the seeds we plant. And I think God says, “How can you ever see all those seeds? And can you not walk by faith?” And I think when we invest in the next generation and we really think and pray about it a lot, we cannot be casual with it. I think the Lord’s reminding us do not be casual with the young people in your life. Do not be casual because you feel like they’re on their phone all the time. Be intentional. Be prayerfully intentional about how you can relationally engage and love them.

Shaila Visser:

And as you build relationship with them, you have a chance to speak into choices they make, things they’re thinking about, or even just a moment to hold them in your hands, sort of grab their cheeks and say, “Do you know how much God loves you? Or do you know how much I love you? Do you see what I see that’s in you?” And we have an opportunity to call out gifts, talents, characteristics in them that we know are gospel plants in them that we get to say, “Hey, this is what I see in you.” And they start to believe it themselves. So cannot take our young people casually. We have to be very intentional.

Daniel Markin:

And I think what you’re speaking to is that’s even just good for a word for pastors maybe who are ministering to Gen Z. So maybe we can close with this. What counsel would you give to pastors who are counseling Gen Z or even Gen Z aged pastors who were counseling their younger Gen Z students, right? What would be some of your counsel there?

Shaila Visser:

I would say, remember to, as you pastor Gen Z in whatever way that looks like, remember that the vertical relationship is essential. That’s with the Trinity and it pours out into a horizontal relationship. When then we start to focus on evangelism or social justice, which shouldn’t be two separate things, but integrated into our Christian witness, when we have both this proclamation and demonstration, it has to be birthed out of a vertical relationship with the Lord. And so how do we do that? How do we disciple people? I found one of the best ways to disciple people is get them into the activity of the kingdom and they get discipled as they’re in the activity of the kingdom.

Shaila Visser:

Doing the work of evangelization in a school, which is probably one of the hardest places to do in the areas that we support students and youth workers, actually disciples your kids more than you’d think. They have to trust God. They have to get prayer support. They’re praying themselves. They’re studying the scriptures. Say, “How would I even respond to someone? How do I encourage to overcome my fear of inviting my friend?” Many muscles of faith get worked as we activate our faith and not just sit in our head all the time.

Shaila Visser:

And so I just want to encourage youth workers. First of all, you’re doing a great job and it is hard, hard work. Second of all, let us serve you. We have our new Life on Purpose resource that’s for youth workers to use where their kids, and then we have Alpha for youth. We do gatherings for youth pastors. Let us serve you. We want to do everything we can to make your job easier, and we want to pray for you as well. And then the third thing is walk in step for the Spirit. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide to join Him in what he is doing in the lives of your students. It will be the greatest privilege and honor of your life to just plant seeds for the kingdom. Someone else may sow them. Someone else may harvest, but be involved in at least part of the planting.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. Be part of the process and leave the results up to the Lord.

Shaila Visser:

Exactly. And it’s a real sweet spot to be as we seek to do that as faithful witnesses. So Shaila, thank you for joining us. I mean, I feel like we keep going. We could keep going. We could turn this to the longest podcast ever. We don’t have that kind of time today, but we’d love to have you back on the program again and talk through this stuff. Be interesting to talk six months from now and see what else are you seeing? What am I seeing and how can we better serve the kingdom together?

Shaila Visser:

We have a lot to learn from one another and I’m eager to chat with you again. Thanks, Daniel. Thanks for what you’re doing at your church, and to all of you youth workers out there, keep going. It’s worth it.

Daniel Markin:

Well, thanks again, Shaila for being on the program today and what an amazing discussion that was in particular. The thing that I found really valuable was the insight to the older generations on how they can actually help begin to interact with Generation Z. I think that’s so important. I think the relationship’s and we, as the church need to make sure that we’re not leaving other generations in the dust, but actually looking back and seeing how can I begin to pull them ahead? So thank you for that. If you were wanting to get more involved or maybe even contact Shaila, you can go to her website, shailavisser.com, and I’m sure from there, you’ll be able to find all things Alpha Canada as well as some of her talks, recommendations, media. All of that is on shailavisser.com. Thanks again for listening and we’ll catch you next time. All the best.