Ep. 212: Self-Control and Why It Changes Our Lives

Joshua Scott:
Hey, welcome to indoubt, my name’s Joshua and I’m your host today. Sometimes I’m sure you’ve felt this, because I’ve felt this. You tune into a podcast and you think, “You know, this maybe isn’t particularly that interesting to me, or it doesn’t really apply to my life as much as I was hoping it would.” Well you know what, today is going to be a podcast where you can’t say that. Because we’re having a conversation about self-control. And as our guest today has argued in his book, self-control is critically important in the life of a Christian. In fact, unless you’re a self-controlled person, you cannot glorify God in the way that we ought to. And so I’m really excited to have this conversation, and I hope as you’re listening you’re thinking, “Okay, actually this is something I need to think about, and I need to work on.”

Joshua Scott:
So I’m really excited to welcome Drew Dyck to our podcast. He’s an editor at Moody Publishers, he’s also a writer and an author, and he most recently wrote his book, Your Future Self Will Thank You, Secrets to Self-Control from the Bible and Brain Science. So, Drew, thanks so much for joining us.

Drew Dyck:
Thanks for having me, I am really excited for this conversation, grateful for the opportunity.

Joshua Scott:
Awesome, awesome. So, I wonder if we could start by just getting you to share a little bit about yourself. Where you’re from, what you do, and how you came to know and love the Lord Jesus.

Drew Dyck:
Sure, yeah. I was born and raised in central and northern Alberta, and my dad was a pastor of various churches in Alberta. And so, grew up in the church. And then when it comes to my own faith journey, I like to joke that after wandering in sin for years, finally at the age of five I broke down and accepted Jesus into my heart. But so, it wasn’t like a super long journey, but really, I was kind of riding the coattails of my parents when it came to my relationship with God. At least until high school, and that’s when I really started reading the Bible for myself, in particular the Gospels, and that’s really when I was just compelled by the person and the teachings of Jesus. I feel like I really fell in love with him at that point. And the faith truly became my own.
And since then, I feel like my call is to work with words, which is a little odd, but sometimes that’s editing other people’s stuff, sometimes that’s writing my own articles and books. Because I believe that God is still changing people through the medium of the written word, and so I know that he’s certainly done that in my life. And so that’s kind of what I do every day.

Joshua Scott:
Cool. Very cool. So, I mean the first thing that sticks out to me there is that you were born and raised in Alberta.

Drew Dyck:
Yeah.

Joshua Scott:
That’s fantastic. So, I was raised in Jasper, Alberta, out in the Rocky Mountains.

Drew Dyck:
Oh, nice. Yes.

Joshua Scott:
So whereabouts in Alberta?

Drew Dyck:
So well I was born in a little town called Islay.

Joshua Scott:
Okay.

Drew Dyck:
Which is just like-

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, never heard of it.

Drew Dyck:
Teeny teeny, but I spent most of my childhood in Red Deer, Alberta.

Joshua Scott:
Okay.

Drew Dyck:
Well first I was in Fort McMurray, which is like-

Joshua Scott:
Yup.

Drew Dyck:
Super far up in the bush. And then when I think when I was five or six moved to Red Deer.

Joshua Scott:
Cool.

Drew Dyck:
And lived there until I was 22.

Joshua Scott:
Right on.

Drew Dyck:
So I am in the States now, been south of the border for like 18, 19 years. And so, when I come home to Canada, my friends make fun of me for my American accent. One of them said I sound like a southern politician.

Joshua Scott:
Right on.

Drew Dyck:
So I hope that was a compliment.

Joshua Scott:
Hey, that’s exciting. Very cool. So, Drew, I’m wondering if you could share with us what sparked in you the desire to write a book about self-control, because that seems like a daunting task.

Drew Dyck:
Sure. Yeah, and I wish I could say I was drawn to the topic purely out of academic interest. Right? “Oh yeah, this is a good topic to address.” The truth is that this is an area in which I realized I had room to grow. And so initially actually I was reading up on this topic, reading some secular books, Christian books about it. And I wasn’t even thinking of writing my own book, I was actually just researching for myself. And I don’t know how far I was into it, a few books and articles, and all of the sudden I realized I wonder if some of the stuff that I’m discovering could be helpful to other people? And so, it kind of morphed into a book project.
But like you said at the outset, I think I was drawn to it too just because it’s so crucial to the Christian life, right? You can’t really lead a wholly healthy life without this crucial virtue of self-control.

Joshua Scott:
So I wonder if you could help us just define our terms, when we’re talking about self-control, what are we talking about? Because immediately my first thought is my ability to not take that cookie from the cookie jar.

Drew Dyck:
Right, right.

Joshua Scott:
Is that self-control or is there more to it?

Drew Dyck:
I think that’s part of it, but I think there is a little more to it, and I define it pretty simply as the ability to do the right thing even when you don’t feel like doing it. Or something like that. And so yeah, this ability to, and sometimes that means resisting doing things that you shouldn’t, right, certain temptations come along and you don’t take the bait, you don’t eat the cookie, you don’t … whatever it is. And sometimes it’s just kind of silly stuff like oh, I shouldn’t eat another cookie, or sometimes it’s a little more serious when it gets you into the sinful territory.
And then on the other hand too, it’s doing the things that you should do that you don’t want to do, right? And so, you can see how it impacts so much of our lives, just those things. And then of course there’s another element to this for us Christians, it’s not just all on us. It’s not just our own grit and determination that determines our self-control, because it is of course called in scripture, a fruit of the spirit, so that means God in some mystical way is empowering us to live a life of self-control. And that’s good news to me, that it’s not all on me, it’s not just my own sheer willpower that’s going to get the job done, but it’s actually God’s Spirit enabling me, empowering me to live the Christian life.

Joshua Scott:
Very cool. Yeah, no, I’ve just been invited to preach a couple times at a church and so we’re going through Titus chapter two, verse 11 to 14 and he says how grace that has appeared is training us to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives. And I was just thinking exactly what you were just saying there, how the grace also moves us to think about okay, now I’m moving away from the sinful things, but I’m moving toward upright and godly living, this being self-controlled being not just in the negative but the positive. So, I think that’s actually really helpful.
So, you’ve mentioned this, but could you fill it out a little bit, why is self-control so important? Like why is this a critical … you called it crucial, why is it crucial?

Drew Dyck:
Yeah, in a few ways. This kind of got on people’s radars back in the 1960s when there was that famous experiment, I think a lot of listeners have probably heard of, called the Marshmallow Experiment. And basically, what they did was kind of a cruel test, they put marshmallows or other tasty treats in front of preschoolers and told them, “You can eat the marshmallow now, or if you can wait 20 minutes, we’ll give you two marshmallows.”

Joshua Scott:
Right, right.

Drew Dyck:
And so they were trying to test their ability to delay gratification. And as you can guess, most preschoolers, these are like, what, three and four year old’s, did not do very well-

Joshua Scott:
Right.

Drew Dyck:
And ate the marshmallow right away.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Drew Dyck:
And so that was somewhat interesting, but really the big takeaway came years later when they tracked down these same kids that had participated in the study and saw their life outcomes. The ones that were able to delay gratification the longest had all these positive life outcomes, better grades, less use of drug and alcohol, better relationships, better careers. I mean, right across the spectrum of their lives. And of course, the opposite was true of the ones that just jammed the marshmallow in their mouth-

Joshua Scott:
Right, right.

Drew Dyck:
Right away. And so that was a revelation for a lot of people, because they had assumed up til that point that IQ was the determining factor in your life, right, if you had a high IQ, if you’re a smart person, naturally things are going to go well for you. Other people thought maybe it was self-esteem that we needed to … okay, we just need to tell people how awesome they are, and they’ll behave better. But this kind of said you know what, what’s more powerful is our self-control, our ability to say no to the things that we want to that actually determines things.
So from a natural perspective, self-control is incredibly important. And it does seem that some people have naturally higher levels, and other people have lower levels, and that was kind of scary for me because I knew I was probably in the camp of a lower level self-control. And yet the good news is, and the research has borne this out, I think in scripture we see this over and over again with characters in scripture, your self-control can grow by God’s grace and by your own commitment to be obedient to God, and to grow in this area, you can see real progress. So that was the encouraging thing to me.

Joshua Scott:
That’s good. So, you just said there how they were thinking about IQ as being the defining factor for success in the future. Nowadays, the conversation is all about EQ, your emotional intelligence.

Drew Dyck:
Right, right.

Joshua Scott:
So would you say that even self-control steps even above EQ in defining somebody’s success?

Drew Dyck:
That’s interesting, I haven’t seen like a direct comparison in the literature, and I’d actually guess that EQ and self-control are intimately related, and let me explain what I mean by that. That is self-control is a very interpersonal virtue. That is, it’s crucial for harmony between people, I think that’s why it’s listed as one of the fruit of the spirit, because you’ve got kindness, gentleness, joy, all these things that we really need to get along with one another, right? And EQ is your ability to relate to people well and in healthy ways.
And the thing about self-control, like you always … to exercise self-control, you have to suspend your own selfish, destructive impulses and put others first, right, that’s kind of the perennial challenge. And if you could do that well, I think … if you could do that well, it’s going to go better for you, not only personally but for your relationships as well.

Joshua Scott:
That’s good. Yeah, that’s an interesting thought. It almost seems … you think about IQ and EQ, and you might be good at both of those, if you don’t have self-control it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

Drew Dyck:
Right.

Joshua Scott:
Here’s a question, when we’re talking about self-control, and particularly let me use my illustration of reaching in and grabbing that cookie, what is the obstacle that I’m actually trying to get over? What am I fighting against in order to actually do the thing that I want to do?

Drew Dyck:
Right. Yeah, so I mean in the case of a cookie, I think it’s pretty clear because your brain is in survival mode and it’s saying, “If I can get sugar, or fat,” let’s say there’s chocolate chips in there, so you get a little bit of fat too. That’s a good deal for your brain, because your brain is a calorie hog, it burns a quarter of your body’s calories, even though it only comprises maybe 3% of your body’s weight. And so, it wants the calories, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The bad thing is when it’s already had enough calories and it hasn’t hit that shut off. Now there’s a part of your brain too, the prefrontal cortex, that is sort of the executive function that’s supposed to say to the other parts of your brain, “Hey listen, you’ve had enough and we need to shut it down.” Right? And so, in a way, your brain is in a battle with itself. And self-control in that instance involves exercising your prefrontal cortex. Or if we put it in terms that we understand consciously, it’s your will to override that impulse and say, “No, I’ve had enough. This is actually going to hurt my health or make me feel sluggish,” or whatever the case is, to say no to that cookie. So that’s what’s going on.
And you know, it’s interesting because self-control is important for those kinds of decisions, which do matter in our lives, right, if you consistently eat the extra cookie, or have a second bowl of ice cream, or whatever it is, or take down a full bag of Doritos, which I’m ashamed to say I’ve done, over time that’s not going to go well for you, it’s going to hurt your life and your health, and it could even qualify as gluttony in some cases.
And then other issues where it’s clearly sin, right? Where it’s … say you’re looking at a sexually elicit image, or you are gossiping about someone, or you’re cheating on your taxes, all these other things, they take self-control as well. But I would say not in every case, like some people have asked me, “Is every self-control failure a sin?” Not necessarily, right? Because if you eat the cookie instead of the kale it just means your taste buds are functioning properly. You don’t want to do that every time.

Joshua Scott:
Right.

Drew Dyck:
But then so in those cases where self-control is still at play just to make decisions that are healthier. But then sometimes it gets really important. To be faithful in your marriage, to be honest and virtuous, and live the Christian life, and become the kind of people that God wants us to be.

Joshua Scott:
So when I was reading your book, every chapter there was something that jumped out to me that I thought man, this is something that I would love to talk about, because I think it’s so important. Every chapter there was something that built upon something else to say that self-control washes over our entire lives and we’ve got to think about it in so many different ways. But I wonder if you could just share with us, in all of your research as you were writing this book, what were the things that to you seemed like the most important, or the most surprising and helpful things that you learned that maybe you could share with our audience?

Drew Dyck:
Yeah, sure, there were a few. I think the thing that hit me earliest on as sort of an “aha” moment was when it came to the research on willpower. So, going back about 20 or 30 years, researchers discovered something really interesting about willpower. And that is that it is finite, it’s limited. And they did these experiments where they’d have people work on puzzles, and one group would have to resist chocolate chip cookies before working on the puzzle, and one group would not have to do that. And the group that had to resist the chocolate chip cookies, they’d go into the puzzle and not last very long at all. And the reason was, they theorized, is that because they depleted their willpower beforehand, when they went to work on the puzzle they just didn’t have enough willpower left.
Now that might seem kind of obvious to us today, and as a Christian I think that certainly jives with what we read in scripture, because we know we’re these finite, fallible creatures, right, that are prone towards sin, that as Jesus said, “The spirit is willing but the body is weak,” right, and so that’s not a surprise to us. But it did help me kind of think about my life in new ways. So, when I’ve had a really difficult day at work, say, and my willpower is depleted, I come home and I’m more likely to maybe snap at my kids because that willpower is dangerously low. And that’s not an excuse, right, for being a jerk to your family or something. But what it enables you to do is to understand, hey listen, after I’ve been exerting a lot of effort, that depletes willpower. Or resisting temptation. Then I’m in a very vulnerable state.
I remember talking to a group of pastors recently, and one of them talked about how he was part of this accountability group of other church leaders. And all of the guys admitted that often when they fell prey to lust was right after they had been doing something ministry, like speaking at a conference or doing something like that. And it was such a mystery to them. And obviously there’s a spiritual component to this, but also there’s a natural one that when you’re doing something really difficult, you’re performing, you’re exerting a lot of willpower, and then after that, that’s when you are very susceptible to falling prey to temptation.
So important to be aware of that, and again, willpower is something that can grow as we do the hard thing, as we exercise self-control, our willpower can grow. But it is a limited and very finite resource.

Joshua Scott:
So you said in your book you did a really interesting thing. As you were talking about how you would come home from work and you’d be exhausted, so you actually adjusted your schedule during the day so that you would be doing lighter, easier tasks in the afternoon, and that would save up enough willpower so when you got home. So how does that work, doing heavier tasks drains your willpower, but does it get restored as you do easier tasks?

Drew Dyck:
Yes, and as you get rest, and do things that just don’t take a lot of effort. And there are a few things that can drain your willpower. It’s doing difficult things, and I don’t physically, actually physically is probably good, but mentally, decision making does it, multitasking, which is a terrible idea anyway, drains your willpower, interpersonal conflict is a big one, lack of sleep is another one. So those are all things to be aware of.
Yeah, and I realized that and the thing that is hardest for me, honestly, is probably writing, especially kind of original material. And I was trying to do it at like 5:00 every day when I was done with the workday, I’d open up the Word doc and go, “Okay, here we go, I’m going to write another chapter.” And there was nothing. The tank was empty, right? And so, then I realized I’ve got to switch this up, I’ve got to do this in the morning when I’m fresh, when I’ve got a little bit of willpower left, or on the weekends or something because I just didn’t have anything left. And that’s yeah, something to be aware of.
I think too often I would put off my time with God, and prayer, and Bible reading til later in the day, and maybe other people can identify with this, you put it off and then it never comes, right, because the day gets busy. And your willpower’s low, and so the earlier you can do that in the day, the better. The other thing is habits like that, like prayer, like Bible reading, or even like exercise, are what they call keystone habits, and that is they’re not only good in and of themselves, but they actually make you more self-disciplined in all areas of your life. So, they know, for instance, if you exercise in the day, you’re going to eat better that day. You’re going to be more productive in your work. And so if you can kind of institute some of those rituals and habits in your life, it actually makes things easier for you in other areas as well.

Joshua Scott:
At another point in your book, just before you start talking about willpower, you were using this phrase, and I don’t know if maybe you coined this phrase or you heard it from somebody, but I guess it was in … you were talking about Sarah Schnitker, who’s the professor of psychology at Baylor University. And she was talking about how secular efforts to build … here, let me read the quote here, “Secular efforts to build self-control have been ineffective because they don’t have the spiritual telos, or the purpose. When people are pursuing sanctified goals, they pursue them differently.” So could you define for us what a sanctified goal is, and why that’s different, and it’s easier to pursue them?

Drew Dyck:
Yes, sure, and I cannot take credit for that.

Joshua Scott:
Okay.

Drew Dyck:
That was coined by researchers, actually secular researchers, not even Sarah. And yeah, it refers to this phenomenon that if you are … say you have a goal, right, and say it could be even something rather mundane, like I want to lose 20 pounds, okay? If you would pursue that goal because, say, oh, I want to fit into my jeans better, or I want to look better in the mirror, that’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with that. But if you instead imbue that goal with spiritual reasons for attaining it, so for a Christian say you say, “Well, you know what, my body’s the temple of the Holy Spirit. I want to treat it well. I want more energy to pursue the calling that God has placed on my life.” So if you kind of conceive of it in those terms, the research, this is not the Bible, the research has shown that you will have greater success at attaining those goals if they have spiritual significance.
And so, I mean, as Christians we should do that anyway, but it’s also just more effective, and what researchers call that is sanctified goals. And that when you do that, it’s just very smart. So, there are funny … I read one article by an atheist in the New York Times that talks about should I start going to church, and praying, and … if I want to meet my New Year’s resolutions? Right? And the one researcher kind of disappointed him by saying, “No, you actually have to believe it.” It’s not like you can just make believe. But, yeah, for people that are believers and see their goals, even the mundane ones, in the light of spiritual truth and ultimate purposes, you’ll have greater success at reaching those goals.

Joshua Scott:
And those sanctified goals, can you sanctify every goal? You were talking about just fitting into your jeans, like do you think about every goal as putting it in a spiritual context and does that shape at all?

Drew Dyck:
Yeah. And I think you can now, but one caveat with that is that if it is a goal that is inherently selfish, or certainly evil, you don’t want to sanctify that goal, I’d say you can’t sanctify it. And that sounds silly, but often our goals are kind of tainted by very selfish motivations, right? Because if you go, “Oh, I don’t know, I just want to make a ton of money so I can look better than everyone else and look down on others,” whatever it is, that’s not a good goal in the first place. And that’s a crucial, I think, to mention for those of us who are followers of Jesus. You can’t just use self-control as a tool to pursue whatever goal you want, right? It has to be a goal that aligns with God’s purposes for your life, with His truth, with the Bible’s teachings. So that’s huge, because the last thing you’d want to do, I think this is the scariest thing to me, is to develop this like awesome self-discipline and use it to do things that ultimately don’t benefit others, don’t glorify God, and even ultimately hurt yourself. Because of course, God knows what’s best for us. So that’s another crucial part of this.
You want to make sure that your goals A, align with God’s purposes for your life, and then B, you want to really sanctify that goal and think of it in terms of what God wants for you, and you’ll have greater success in reaching it. So yeah, it seems silly sometimes if it’s like a lose 10 pounds goal, but if it’s like you want a better marriage, man, you better put that in spiritual terms, because it’s a spiritual sort of thing. And it’ll be beneficial as well.

Joshua Scott:
So another chapter of your book that I thought was really, really helpful and very practical, was your chapter on habits, and the power of habits. So, could you tell us just a little bit about the power of habits, and then how do we form and shape habits into our lives where we don’t have them right now, like Bible reading in the morning. How do I get to two years down the road, I’m doing it daily without even thinking about it?

Drew Dyck:
Yeah, so habits are a huge part of this. And it relates to what I was saying about willpower. So, you’ve got willpower, which is a finite resource, it runs out, you get weaker as you go. And this is where habits come in, and they’re so crucial, because essentially what a habit is, is a routine, it’s something you do automatically. And the genius of a habit is you’re not expending willpower when you do it. So, the guy that gets up and runs five miles every morning, he’s not slapping himself in the face and going, “Okay, that’s it, I’ve got to do it, I’ve got to pull it together and get out there.” No, it’s a habit, right? If he’s been doing it for any length of time, it’s relatively simple and easy, and you get out there and do it.
And so a habit is sort of a neurological phenomenon, because what happens is … researchers talk about the three parts of a habit. There’s the cue, the thing that initiates the habit, there’s the routine, that’s the actual habit, and then there’s a reward, there’s something that kind of is gratifying that cements that habit in place. So, for instance, for the guy who goes running, maybe the cue is to see the running shoes by the door. Okay, put them on. The routine is to run, and the reward could be the endorphins that are released that make you kind of feel good. And there’s differing opinions on how long it takes for a habit to form. Some people say 30 days, which is true of simple sort of routines, more complex ones, it’s more like 66 days. But if you can persevere through that crucial window of habit formation, then it gets easier as you go. Yes, at first, it’s difficult to initiate a new habit. But if you can stick it out, then it becomes automatic, and then you’re not depleting your willpower.
And one thing I’d say when it comes to initiate, and second part of your question, okay, how do we initiate these habits? The best thing is to replace a bad habit with a new good one. So, say you’re a smoker, and so the cue is when you step outside your door you get that urge for a cigarette, you smoke the cigarette, and the reward is the nicotine hitting your bloodstream. Well, maybe you decide you know what? When I step outside in the morning, I’m not going to have that cigarette, I’m going to go for a run. And now it’s a different … you’ve kind of hijacked the habit loop and you’re using the same cue, you changed the routine, and the reward now is not nicotine in your bloodstream, but endorphins. And so, you can replace.
And the other thing I’ve got to say is you’ve got to start small, and this is so counterintuitive, because often when we want to implement change we go, okay, I’m going to change four things at once. I’m going to get all these great habits in my spiritual life, my physical life, my relationships, whatever. And you’ve got that limited willpower though, and so when you come to try to do that, you just decimate your willpower all at once, and then you don’t make progress in any of those areas. So, start small with one little habit. If you want to run, you don’t go for a three-mile run the first day, you walk around the block. The essential thing is that you’re just doing it consistently and cementing in that habit loop, and then it has a greater opportunity to stick in your life.

Joshua Scott:
And that’s the problem with New Year’s resolutions that you talk about in your book, right? We come to New Years-

Drew Dyck:
Precisely.

Joshua Scott:
And we’ve got these five goals, it’s cold turkey, I’m going to go to the gym for an hour every day. And it just doesn’t happen.

Drew Dyck:
Exactly. No, it’s so true, and I’ve been there myself. And I’m always mystified, because I totally believed this is the year, this is it, I’m going to do it all, it’s going to be amazing. And then it takes … it’s not even weeks-

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Drew Dyck:
It’s like days-

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Drew Dyck:
Before it’s unraveled, and it’s funny because gyms know this. They sell a ton of memberships-

Joshua Scott:
Totally.

Drew Dyck:
And everyone’s sure they’re going to work out and you don’t want to cancel it and admit defeat. But yeah, so that’s the problem with New Year’s resolutions, that they’re resolutions, plural. You’re far better just going with one thing, I know it doesn’t seem as exciting, but going with one smaller goal, and then once that’s a habit you can move on to another one.

Joshua Scott:
That’s cool. So, another thing you were talking about in your book that I thought was really interesting, because I hadn’t come here and realized this, was particularly about social media, and how it can distract us or it’s a … I mean, there’s a war being waged against our desire to be on it all the time. But you talked about dopamine, and how I guess it was a study with rats, and then realized it to be true with humans, was that dopamine actually doesn’t provide any pleasure, it simply creates in us a greater hunger. Could you flesh that out a little more, because I think that’s something really significant that particularly the newer generations are going to be wrestling with, is all of this technology, it’s going to vie for our attention, and it’s offering us something that really isn’t even that pleasurable.

Drew Dyck:
Yeah. That’s a disturbing thing, because I think sometimes, we don’t like to think of ourselves certainly as rats that are kind of getting this dopamine hit when we go online, but the truth is we kind of are. And these platforms … and I’m not like a Luddite, someone who’s like, okay, all online engagement is evil – I am on Twitter way too much. And so, I know this as well as anyone. These things are addictive by design. So, they’re designed to keep you engaged as long as possible, and if you don’t take some measures to kind of curb their influence in your life, you’re going to A, waste a lot of time and even form addictions. Because yeah, when you get those likes on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter, or that feedback, people liking your picture or your comment, you get a little hit of dopamine. And like you said, this is the surprising thing, people call dopamine the “feel-good chemical.” And in a sense, it is; it’s associated with the pleasure centre of your brain. But actually, it’s not quite that, they’ve shown that it actually makes you anticipate pleasure. So, when you walk by a bakery and you see that delicious piece of cake in the window, your brain is flooded with dopamine. Are you experiencing pleasure? Not exactly, you just want that cake really bad. And that’s what it does.
And so if it’s never satisfied, it’s this constant kind of heightened state of arousal that you’re in without any sort of real satisfaction of, say, being with people in person having those deep relationships with people. And so, I think that’s why sometimes like it’s addictive, the online stuff, and then you come away from it and you don’t feel satisfied. And yet you want to go back and spend more time online. So, we’ve got to be careful, because not only does it waste time, but it also is changing our brains and our imaginations so we can’t tolerate any boredom, we can’t be alone with our thoughts. And as a Christian, that’s really worrisome because to facilitate a relationship with God demands quieting your mind, praying, reading God’s Word, which let’s face it, takes some concentration – it’s a big, old book. And so, if you’re … and your attention span has been conditioned by Twitter and Instagram and online engagement, it’s very hard to engage in those sort of spiritual disciplines. And not to mention real life community, which is hard and challenging as well.

Joshua Scott:
That’s good. Yeah, it’s such an interesting thing that I read, the anticipating pleasure that you get from dopamine. And I immediately thought, “Well, that’s right on.” Because I’ll sit down, I’ll be on Facebook for a good 10 minutes, and you get up and immediately you’re like, “I don’t want to do anything right now.” But at the same time, I don’t really want to go back to Facebook, but at the same time I kind of do. Like it’s-

Drew Dyck:
Right.

Joshua Scott:
Like I know I’m not going to enjoy it, but it’s just … I want to do it. Such a strange thing how that works.

Drew Dyck:
So true, yep.

Joshua Scott:
So I think you’ve given us some really good things to think about, even just practically working in our lives, so you talk about willpower and how if we work this muscle, even work it in small ways, that we’re going to build that muscle. You were talking about habits, forming habits, starting slow. And even sanctified goals, right, being able to put our goal in the light of something spiritual. But I wonder if you could, on this last question, help us understand, you had one of your chapters, it was talking about the balance of grace in self-control, the role of grace. Because we can look at that and think, “Okay, yes, I know I should start developing my willpower. I know I should start developing habits, and I know I should do these things and do, do, do.” And all of the sudden my life becomes work, and I think, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, but grace is not about what I do.” So how do we balance the role of grace, understanding that it’s not what I do that in any way merits my salvation, God’s gift of forgiveness washes all my failures, but how do I then pursue a life of self-control in light of that?

Drew Dyck:
Yeah. So, I think when it comes to this topic, a lot of people see grace, that is God’s unmerited favour towards us, and self-control is almost opposite. Where they’re like … and the thinking goes something like this, well, if God forgives me, which of course He does, and not based on anything I’ve done, just out of His own beautiful, free grace, then the thinking goes, well, why do I have to exercise self-control to resist sin, to live a life of holiness, right? Because there’s always more forgiveness on tap.

Joshua Scott:
Right. Right, yeah, that’s right.

Drew Dyck:
And of course the Apostle Paul anticipates this sort of thinking in the Bible. He says, “Shall we go on sinning that grace may increase? By no means,” was his response, or, “Heaven forbid,” depending on your translation. And so yeah, so right off the bat he’s saying, “Listen, don’t think that just because we’ve received grace that we can just kind of go on sinning. We still need to strive for godliness, we still need to live a life of self-control.” And here’s the cool thing to me, I believe not only are they not opposites, but that grace actually fuels and empowers self-control.
One study that I found really interesting is actually diet researchers who coined the phrase, and forgive this phrase, they call it the “What the Hell Effect.” And basically, what this referred to was when they observed people on diets, when these people had one small indiscretion, say they messed up and had one slice of pizza or a candy bar, what followed that indiscretion was often a full-on binge. Right? Because they said, “Oh well who cares?”

Joshua Scott:
Right.

Drew Dyck:
“I’m done, I’ve ruined the diet anyway, now I’m just going to go nuts.” And I think we’ve all been there, it’s like-

Joshua Scott:
Oh, yeah.

Drew Dyck:
Oh, yeah, I’ve totally been there. And they also talked about the opposite phenomenon that they called the “Fresh Start Effect.” And the “Fresh Start Effect” referred to this phenomenon where people, when they believe that they’re starting new, when they have a blank slate, their behaviour actually improves. And I think that applies not only just to diets, but to even the Christian life. Like when you … and as Christians of course we get the ultimate “Fresh Start Effect”, God adopts us into His family, He forgives us entirely out of His own free grace. And then in response to that, we don’t want to sin, we want to start fresh and new because we have been forgiven and we have that fresh start.
So and this is another thing, some people think the key to improving your behaviour, or improving other people around you behaviour, is to kind of layer on the guilt, right, make people feel bad about themselves, beat yourself up. But the truth is, that doesn’t work, that just causes you to like wallow in self-condemnation and actually engage in more destructive and sinful behaviour. The key is to keep diving back to grace and going, “I’m forgiven, God loves me, He’s called me to a new life, and I’m going to walk in that.” And in that way, I think grace actually empowers you to live a life of self-control.

Joshua Scott:
Wow, that’s very good. Really, really good. Well Drew, thanks so much for helping us dive into this subject of self-control. And even the thought that I was just having right now as you’re sharing about grace and the role, but what a gift it is to know … like you read the list of the fruit of the spirit, that self-control is in that list, that God comes alongside us to develop this in us, so it’s not us labouring against ourselves and against our sin and of flesh, but God’s presence with us in that labouring and blesses it.

Drew Dyck:
That’s right.

Joshua Scott:
So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, and all your research, and all your study. We’ve really appreciated having you on the show today.

Drew Dyck:
Well thanks so much, it’s been fun. Last thing I do want to say-

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Drew Dyck:
Too to people, is don’t get discouraged, I know this topic … I’ve been there myself, especially if you have a particularly bad habit or besetting sin that just seems to have your number, I just want to encourage you, don’t get discouraged. Keep going back to God for His forgiveness, and know that you can make progress, that you’re not a slave to that sin, that’s the beauty of the Spirit of God being alive and working in you, that He’s calling you to be someone different, that He’s still conforming people to the image of Jesus, and be encouraged by that. And remember that change really is possible.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, that’s great. Well thanks so much, Drew.

Drew Dyck:
Thank you, it’s been fun.