Ep. 007:DO HUMOUR AND GOSPEL MIX?!? w/ Phil Callaway

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, this is Andrew Marcus from THE INDOUBT SHOW. Thanks so much for joining us today. Today we have a great episode for you. We have Phil Callaway all the way from Alberta, from Laugh Again, in studio with us today. It’s going to be such a special time. Phil celebrates 10 years with Laugh Again, which has been impacting people literally around the world, and we’re so honoured to have him on the program with us.

Just want to remind you before we dive in that we have a resource available for you that is absolutely free of charge. It is called The Good News. In it, we discuss the bad news and why the good news is so good and how it can impact you and change your life forever. This month’s free gift, you can find it at indoubt.ca. Go to the store and type in GN23 as the promo code and you will get it free, shipped to your door. We hope it blesses you and it’s a great resource to you and your family, and we hope you enjoy today’s program.

I am very excited. We have in the room with us the legend, Phil Callaway. Phil, come on ladies and gentlemen. Can we? Thank you. Come on, yes. I mean, it’s all him, it’s all him. Phil Callaway. We are so blessed to have you on the show, man. How are you doing?

Phil Callaway:

I’m doing real well.

Andrew Marcus:

You’re doing great.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m glad you’re here. You’re from out of town. You’re here in studio.

Phil Callaway:

It’s cool.

Andrew Marcus:

Specifically just for this. We flew you out.

Phil Callaway:

I have made it. I have made it. It’s unbelievable. Thanks for having me.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s amazing. Tell us a little bit, for some of the listeners who are not familiar with you, tell us a little bit about your journey. We’re celebrating 10 years this year of Laugh Again, which is a fantastic ministry. Tell us about that ministry, how it started, and just give us a little bit of who you are.

Phil Callaway:

It sort of came out of traveling, speaking, writing books and realizing that humor has a great ability to open up people who might not be open to a deeper message sometimes, or they’re just reluctant to give the second thought to Christianity or to Jesus. We found that along the way that it’s just been remarkable to see how it warms people and the conversations that you can have when people have laughed. I think it’s one of our primary apologetics that we can use right now is joy-filled Christians.

Ben Lowell and I began to talk about some ways, is there any way we could get this on radio to put it in a can and get it out there? And so we prayed about it. We prayed for years, we prayed. We were told, it’s ridiculous. You’ll never get this happening. Five minutes is not a good length and et cetera, et cetera, so many things. A guy in the states told me, “No, you’ll lose your shorts and your shirt and everything, even your hat and your headphones doing this.”

Andrew Marcus:

And look at this. He’s wearing a hat and he’s wearing a sweater.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

And pants.

Phil Callaway:

I’ve still got, that’s about all I have, but…

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah.

Phil Callaway:

Hey.

Andrew Marcus:

But he has one set.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah. This thing started in Canada and has really taken off. For some reason, I think it’s we live in an age when people badly need hope. They’re hurting, they’re discouraged, they’re down, they’re depressed, they’re anxious. We address those kind of things and the response that we get, amazing responses. A lady in West Edmonton Mall who had been reading some of my books-

Andrew Marcus:

I was going to say you have a couple books-

Phil Callaway:

… that I see we have a stack. She had started to listen to Laugh Again. She walked over to my wife and I in the mall and she just said, “I know who you are. I came to faith in Jesus listening to your program.”

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Phil Callaway:

And I seriously, when stuff like that happens, I can’t stop tears from coming.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, of course.

Phil Callaway:

To think that God could use a guy like me. And she said she was from South America. She said, “I’m learning English listening to your show.” And I said, “I will pray for you. Help.” But anyway, God used a donkey in scripture and in old times so He can use me.

Andrew Marcus:

You’re comparing yourself to a donkey.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah. Well, I think I’m just a step up.

Andrew Marcus:

A cut above, just a cut above. So you mentioned you write books and we have a couple of them here.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

There are actually more. How many books have you written?

Phil Callaway:

I believe I’ve written 30 books.

Andrew Marcus:

30 books?

Phil Callaway:

Yep. That started way back in 1993, Andrew, when you were not even thought of.

Andrew Marcus:

No, I was.

Phil Callaway:

And oh, you were?

Andrew Marcus:

I was running around.

Phil Callaway:

Were you?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. I’m actually quite old.

Phil Callaway:

How old?

Andrew Marcus:

I don’t have hair. Don’t let the hat fool you.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m actually bald.

Phil Callaway:

Hair is overrated.

Andrew Marcus:

Hair is overrated.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

We both have the same haircut.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, we do. And-

Andrew Marcus:

We were inspired by Ben Lowell, to be honest.

Phil Callaway:

I’ll show later. I’ll show my hair.

Andrew Marcus:

You’ve written, that’s a lot of books, man. And I actually have some of these books. I’m interested in this one, Five Steps to Make Life-

Phil Callaway:

To Making Life Rich.

Andrew Marcus:

Are you talking about financially?

Phil Callaway:

There’s financial stuff in there a little bit, but mostly it’s on relationships. And that’s how we’re rich.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s how we’re actually rich.

Phil Callaway:

So how do we chase those?

Andrew Marcus:

Amazing. You’re not from BC, you live in Alberta.

Phil Callaway:

Alberta, yes.

Andrew Marcus:

Three Hills.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, that’s right. They keep wanting me to… Thousands of people want me to… No, actually, but a guy asked me… Okay. Nobody asked me to live here.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s why you’re there.

Phil Callaway:

Yep.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh gosh. Okay. So we celebrate 10 years, which is amazing, and I can’t wait for the next 10 years. We talked about that last night when we went to celebrate you. I want to talk about, you don’t consider yourself a comedian, you’re a humorist. There’s a big difference.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, there is.

Andrew Marcus:

Humorist has heartwarming stories that make you laugh. A comedian is the class clown of school that tells you to streak across the football field.

Phil Callaway:

Maybe. Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

But you’ve asked me to streak across, so it’s kind of weird.

Phil Callaway:

I don’t remember that.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m just kidding.

Phil Callaway:

No, I just said go fast is what I said. Comedians, I have many friends who are comedians who, they’re clean, they do great stuff, and I’m all for that. I’ve just found that life has thrown us some curve balls. If we did not have Christ living in and through us, we’d be dead. I mean, literally dead.

I love to speak. I just spoke at a large event for public school teachers and had such a great time, and they love the humor. But what I love more than anything is to use the humor and then be able to tell them the exact reason that I am still alive, and that is the power of Christ. I’m unable to do that in certain venues, but for the most part that’s what I do.

And it’s just, you know what? It’s funny. It’s got to be funny stuff that people resonate with. But I’ve found that humor can be used in the most disastrous ways to just level people. So God had to get ahold of my tongue when I was a teenager, that I discovered, man, my comedy, my comments were biting and would devastate people publicly. And God had to get ahold of that.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Phil Callaway:

That took a long time because my tongue was moving and it was hard for Him to grab ahold of it.

Andrew Marcus:

So inspired by hope and talking about the importance of humor in hope. Now I’ve heard people say, laughter is the best medicine. I’ve also heard people say, don’t you dare laugh in church or Christians shouldn’t be… Pretty big extreme. I’m sure you get a lot of flack too, for some of your humor. But I think humor, and I agree with you, I think humor is very important of just softening the heart and just making the heart ready, in a way, to receive truth.

We talked about just a lot of depression and anxiety in the world is just in need of joy-filled Christians, and I could not agree more. Could you share a little bit about your journey and your story? Maybe that was something that you were needing. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, but I’d love to hear about how that played a role in your life.

Phil Callaway:

Well, I grew up in a pretty conservative church where there was not a whole lot of laughter. We had actually a great preacher, for a time, who used laughter and people accepted that because he was such this holy man of God. But suddenly he’d be up there in the pulpit and he’d be very vibrant. And I learned from him that you can use humor. Now he didn’t translate it like I try to do, where you take humor and then you take something from that that you can turn into some type of a lesson. He didn’t do that. The first guy I saw do that was a great comedian named Ken Davis.

Andrew Marcus:

I love Ken Davis. Oh man.

Phil Callaway:

Because he was the first guy that I was watching, and I was almost on the floor laughing, and then suddenly he has you, and it wasn’t this giant switch at all. It wasn’t a bait and switch. It was simply part of who he was. And this was the most important thing about him was that he was a follower of Jesus and people love him for that, so I was shown that.

I can remember looking around when I was a kid and thinking, as the pastor’s talking about heaven, I don’t necessarily want to spend eternity with these people because a lot of them were pretty sour. And I’ve since been hit by these kind of people who will write me blistering letters saying, “You should never mix humor with the gospel.” “And boy, Jesus never laughed.” Well, evidently this person had never been camping with 12 other men. It is just the way it is. They laughed and he was known as a guy that you wanted at your party.

Andrew Marcus:

Kids are playing around with him.

Phil Callaway:

Kids were playing.

Andrew Marcus:

They’re not going to play around with the guy who’s…

Phil Callaway:

Precisely. So I think the God that I once knew was a very small God. And what I’ve found is that He is a God of great, great joy. Scripture is filled with it. At his right hand are pleasures forevermore, joy. We have a God who loves us enough to give us a gift of a sense of humor. And sometimes it’s used wrongly. And I think we need to repent of that and use it in the right way.

So when I speak, like I will Sunday night, to a room full of couples, I’m not going to mock my wife. I’m going to tell stories that honor her as well, that are funny. And we can do that. Because I think it’s hard if we watch somebody do comedy and we realize, he’s mocking his wife, whatever it is, or he’s doing this, and then suddenly he’s talking about God and it’s the dichotomizing thing.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. That’s huge. And we talk about hope, and I know we talked yesterday, I shared a little bit about this last journey, last season in my life of struggling with anxiety and panic attacks, all that kind of stuff. And you kind of opened up and said, I had that too around the same age as me. What did this ministry do for your own soul to help you?

Phil Callaway:

Well, I was thinking of that yesterday, partly because of things we were talking about. I think what I’ve done in the last 10 years with Laugh Again is, I’ve been preaching to myself and I think that’s a good thing to do. I’ve been talking about things I would like to know more about. My mother, they didn’t talk about depression when I was a kid, but my earliest memories are of my mom being depressed. She was the first one I ever saw have a panic attack. I didn’t know what was going on, of course. But I have since had those panic attacks, I’ve since battled, at times, depression, myself, anxiety. So I’m writing about those things, I’m thinking about those things. I’m trying to find out how do I live as a Christian dealing with things that you’re dealing with.

But I discovered in the midst of my mother’s depression, is she was just sick. She was in her bed. She was hospitalized sometimes, but I remember coming into her room, it was my parents’ room. They shared a bed, as I do recall in there. But she was there and she was sick. She was laying down. And I remember starting to just do silly things, just whatever I could do to make her laugh. And I discovered something magical. She got up, she laughed. She got up and she went to the kitchen and made me breakfast, which was my first paying gig apparently.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s amazing.

Phil Callaway:

So the power of humor I watched help her a whole lot. For her, she was dealing with extreme abuse from childhood, and she turned the very thing that could have defined her into the thing that gave her a platform to help other women. Every Tuesday night, these women were in our home. And I discovered, I didn’t even know at the time, but she was dealing with people who had battled their own things and she was helping them.

So that’s, I think, a big part of helping us through these times is being able to see that, hey, we have a whole new audience. We have a whole new voice that we can just share with people who are hurting and they’re everywhere. I remember a little girl saying the reason she was voted most popular girl in her high school. She said, “When I was a little girl, my daddy told me everyone on earth is at least just a little bit lonely.” And she really took that on as her project. Well, they’re lonely.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Phil Callaway:

I think it’s also everyone on earth is at least just a little bit hurting, and some of us are hurting big time. And as believers, we need to be honest and open enough to say, “Yeah, that’s me too.” Not come down on them, but come alongside them.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s huge. What would you tell someone who just would say they don’t have a reason to laugh? They’re just going through way too much. There’s just no joy. The joy is sucked out.

Phil Callaway:

I would say, start in Philippians. I know that sounds like a heal all, and it’s not. But do, take steps, little ones. Turn on Laugh Again. Just see if the stories won’t make you laugh. For me, the thing that transforms me is, whatever things are pure, lovely of good report, start there. Start thinking on these things, because it’s mostly up here.

And of course some of your viewers are dealing with unspeakable difficulty and anxiety. When I was a little kid, I remember my mother teaching me to pray. If I should die before I wake, and I’m thinking, what am I going to die of? I’m four. Hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, osteoporosis, what? And then my older brother threatened to kill me, and my prayers took on new urgency.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, gosh.

Phil Callaway:

That’s the way it is in life, right? Where we start to realize, oh man, I’m hit with this.

I remember my wife having her first seizure and seeing her on the floor when I finally got home. And she had called, phoned me and said, “Honey, help. I don’t know where I am. I don’t know what day it is.” And the phone went dead.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh gosh.

Phil Callaway:

So I took off running, came home, and the kids were smaller at the time, they were making their own breakfast down in a stainless steel bowl on the kitchen floor. And Steven and my eldest, he was this tall, and he looks up at me, he says, “Daddy, is mama going to die?”

Andrew Marcus:

Oh my gosh.

Phil Callaway:

And I didn’t know what he was talking about. Came into the living room, she’s stretched out unconscious on the floor, lying in a pool of blood. And she just had her first seizure and the first of hundreds and hundreds to come. So at that time, and I think why your question is such a good one, well, what do you say to someone like that? Well, there there’s nothing you can say, except to be alongside them. And so I had friends that were a great help, but mostly I had to try to figure this thing out myself as I began to embrace bitterness in my life. The red book there, Laughing Matters, is on learning to laugh when life stinks, deals with exactly that. Where do you go when the hope is gone? Where do you go when you are bitter? You’re becoming increasingly this way. So I address a number of those things in that book.

But very quickly, you start by getting on your knees. You just do. We got to be… I thank God that he brought me to a point of desperation. My favorite prayer is, help. And start there. He loves us. Find that he listens. The beautiful thing is to know whatever you’re facing, that God has faced it, and that Jesus didn’t just do what every other, a founder of any religion has done, talk about these things and tell us all these steps to get up to God. He came down to us and he suffered. He knows your pain. That’s a huge thing.

Romans 15:13 became a verse that I started to memorize. And now I don’t think there’s a day that goes by, because we still struggle, when I don’t say, “May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit” (NIV). So that’s just a couple of things that have helped.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow. That’s huge. And to know, anyone who’s battling any of this depression, anxiety, or just hardship, just hearing your story and hearing some of the things. This is just a taste of your life, how there could still be joy and hope in the midst of trial and hardship.

Phil Callaway:

And as you know, I mean, talk to others, find a confidant, find someone to tell it to. That’s a big deal. Get some help. I know that Back to the Bible Canada has people who pray. Laugh Again, INDOUBT, people who will pray for viewers, so get in touch.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, absolutely. Even when we were talking yesterday, just the reminder of how important it is to reach out and bring stuff to the light. I shared with you, because we were talking about Israel. Phil and I went to Israel, 2018. The last time I actually saw Phil was 2018. And we went to Israel together. And I remember I was randomly selected.

Phil Callaway:

You were.

Andrew Marcus:

If you remember that?

Phil Callaway:

I sure do.

Andrew Marcus:

And I think Ben and the team were terrified. Is he going to actually get out of there? Story for a different time. I shared with him, because he’s going to Israel again. And I said, he asked if I was going, and I said, “I don’t think so because I’m getting a little anxious with flights, ever since I had my burnout.” And I just openly shared with Phil, and then he got to share with me, you had a similar situation around the same age.

Phil Callaway:

Yes.

Andrew Marcus:

And you were flying. Tell us a little bit about that. You were flying to Dallas.

Phil Callaway:

I was flying to Dallas to be on a Praise the Lord Television show, it was called. They’re translating my words into 14 languages right there. All these people, a studio audience, and I’m fighting to remember stuff. I’m in the midst of burnout out like you were-

Andrew Marcus:

Oh wow.

Phil Callaway:

… and are. Thank God, my parents knew what was going on. And my big fear was flying. And here I was, I was flying all over, having these best sellers, people want you. And there I am. And they did not have much money, but they said, “We want to buy Ramona’s tickets so that she can go with you.” And so we went together. That was a big help to me. But I tell you, again, I come back to Philippians where be anxious for nothing, except flying, I think it says. But it is such a fear.

And so I started to look into it. How safe are these things? How many of these go down?

Andrew Marcus:

Oh gosh.

Phil Callaway:

All of that stuff. And believe it or not, that was a help. My mother put a card in my briefcase. I opened it on a flight, and we were going through all kinds of stuff. My wife was going through seizures at that time. She was being tested for Huntington’s Disease. We did not know what was coming, at all. And here, I get this thing and it’s a card, and I read, “Hey, dear son, we’re praying for you and we’re thankful you get to do this.” And I looked at that line and I’m going, just a second. I get to do this? Because I don’t feel that way. And I’ll tell you, it took a very long time, Andrew, for me to come to that point of saying, I get to. I get to.

My neighbor across the street, I’ve been whining about things like taking out the garbage. And my neighbor across the street would give anything to take out the garbage right now. He’s been in a wheelchair for years and he just recently, this last year passed away, very young. And he would give anything, he would have, to be able to take out the garbage. I take so much for granted, and I am not a grateful person. Gratitude is something that has really transformed my life as well.

But be anxious for nothing. I like how Eugene Peterson puts it in the message, and maybe viewers just almost close your eyes and think of this, if I can remember it. It says, “Don’t fret or worry.” Don’t fret or worry, start there. And he goes on. I wish I could remember. I know, don’t fret. You know this? “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, let your request be made known unto God. And the peace of God that passes all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Such a huge help when we actually take that and we go through it at night as we lay there. Again, hopefully that’s practical help to somebody out there.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, that helps me.

Phil Callaway:

Well, this is something I will deal with all my life, this anxiety thing.

Andrew Marcus:

Do you still have panic attacks or did that kind of-

Phil Callaway:

I haven’t.

Andrew Marcus:

You haven’t.

Phil Callaway:

I think a big thing there was to realize that it won’t kill me. And I remember the first time someone said that to me and I thought, well, oh, I hadn’t really thought of that. It was a good thought. I’m going to be okay. I found I can’t let my mind go to certain places, so I look at my schedule over the next six months and think, oh man. Really, I’m going to do that? Those are my flight times or whatever. Or I think of the future. I think of my wife’s health or you name it. There are big things. We now have 14 grandkids. I tell you, if you don’t have something to be anxious about, look at the world around us. And the fact that you have 14 grandkids who are being thrown the things they’re being thrown. So I get on my knees and I pray, and it always needs to… We need to incorporate gratitude.

Andrew, I got to tell you this. One of the coolest stories that I’ve heard on gratitude is this. You know Joni Eareckson Tada?

Andrew Marcus:

Yes.

Phil Callaway:

This amazing lady. 16 years of age she was, when she was paralyzed in a diving accident in Chesapeake Bay. 16. Her life is an amazing testimony to God’s goodness.

But years ago, organizers in Sacramento, California oversold this event by 1500 seats, which is a wee bit of a problem. They had miscalculated. They didn’t know what to do. They began to conscript all these people, these volunteers, to phone every single person coming and apologize and say, “We’re putting in smaller chairs in this huge auditorium and we’re going to do the best we can to get everyone in.” One hour into that event, avalanche of people were just calling or writing notes saying, “My buns are too sore from sitting on these chairs,” and all kinds of other things. They asked the next speaker if she would mind apologizing again on behalf of the organizers. Her name is Joni Eareckson Tada, wheels herself onto the platform.

And she says this, she says, “I understand some of you aren’t comfortable sitting in the seats you’re sitting in tonight. Well, neither am I. I’ve been in mine for more than 30 years.” And then smiling her beautiful smile. She says, “I have thousands of friends who’d give anything to sit where you are sitting tonight.”

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Phil Callaway:

And many people in attendance said that was a turning point in their lives, to realize every moment we have the gift of life, we have the gift of breath and health. So I would say, take that next breath. Make it a deep one. Let it go slowly and give thanks to God when you’re doing that. And that’s been a help to me.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise God, man, that we get to do this.

Phil Callaway:

We get to. We do.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s huge. Hey, so how many kids do you have?

Phil Callaway:

I’m not sure.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh.

Phil Callaway:

Hey. Hey. Come on. No

Andrew Marcus:

Humorist folks. Humorist.

Phil Callaway:

Three kids. Three kids.

Andrew Marcus:

Three kids and 14 grandkids.

Phil Callaway:

And a fourth one as well. No, no, we have three. I was going to say, I sometimes tell people, I have two great kids, and a third one as well.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh gosh.

Phil Callaway:

But they all are good kids.

Andrew Marcus:

Three kids.

Phil Callaway:

We had them fast, really fast. Three in three years.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh wow.

Phil Callaway:

That was fun. Don’t necessarily want to do that.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s probably when the hair loss came, I’m assuming.

Phil Callaway:

Hair loss came.

Andrew Marcus:

You had probably a long…

Phil Callaway:

Yeah. Oh, you should have seen it. I was constantly flicking it. But you know what? Hair growth is overrated. And you are like me-

Andrew Marcus:

I agree. Amen, brother.

Phil Callaway:

Listen brother, you do not have trouble growing hair. But location is everything with hair, isn’t it?

Andrew Marcus:

It’s true. You should see my back. I’m just kidding.

Phil Callaway:

Oh yeah. Well you’re like a struggling oil company. You have great production, but poor distribution. Way to go, man. You look good.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, thanks buddy. That’s so funny.

Phil Callaway:

You have saved thousands on haircuts.

Andrew Marcus:

Honestly-

Phil Callaway:

Huh?

Andrew Marcus:

… haircuts, the shampoos, all that stuff, gel, mousse, all that stuff. And I can drive with the windows down, not have to worry about…

Phil Callaway:

Hair plugs are 10,000 bucks or more, so you’ve saved that.

Andrew Marcus:

I know.

Phil Callaway:

So spend it on your wife.

Andrew Marcus:

Thank you so much for being on the show, man. Thank you for all you’re doing. Hopefully our listeners will be inspired to be joy-filled Christians.

Phil Callaway:

Hey, amen.

Andrew Marcus:

No matter what we’re going through in life, we can just set our minds on what is true, what is good, what is righteous, and make people laugh while we do it.

Phil Callaway:

Great. Well I wish you all the best success in this. You’re a guy that has much to say and it’s going to be fun to watch you-

Andrew Marcus:

Thanks, man.

Phil Callaway:

… in the coming days. And Laugh Again, there’s an app out there.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh?

Phil Callaway:

It’s 20 bucks. You have to send it to me. No, it’s free. It’s free.

Andrew Marcus:

Free app, Laugh Again. But no, I really appreciate you man. Thank you so much for being here.

Phil Callaway:

Me, too.

Andrew Marcus:

And I think now, because you’ve been on Focus on The Family, a bunch of other shows, and now that he’s gone on the INDOUBT SHOW, now we’re going to actually get some traction, finally.

Phil Callaway:

Fun. Exactly.

Andrew Marcus:

So we finally got a big one.

Phil Callaway:

Yes, finally.

Andrew Marcus:

But thank you so much for being here, man.

Phil Callaway:

Thanks. Great to be with you.

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out the INDOUBT SHOW on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcasts. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out indoubt.ca, we have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.