Ep. 010: DOES CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE = KIDS?!? w/ Brian & Bonnie Pue

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, this is Andrew Marcus. Thank you for tuning into THE INDOUBT SHOW. We have a fantastic show today. We have Bryan and Bonnie Pue here in house talking about marriage, talking about kids. They have a great ministry, great resource called TheUnionMovement.com. Check them out, but it’s going to be fantastic. Also, want to remind you, we have a free resource for you this month. Type in the promo code SYF23 at indoubt.ca for the book, Before You Share Your Faith. Fantastic resource on evangelism. Anyways, enjoy the book. Enjoy today’s episode. God bless.

All right, so we got Bryan and Bonnie Pue. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Bryan Pue:

Oh, man, it’s great to be here.

Andrew Marcus:

This is awesome. So you spoke at my home church a few months ago.

Bryan Pue:

I did.

Andrew Marcus:

And I was hoping you were going to wear the red pants again.

Bryan Pue:

I know it’s my claim to fame, but I can’t put it out there too much. You know what I mean?

Andrew Marcus:

You can’t overuse them.

Bryan Pue:

I can’t overuse them.

Andrew Marcus:

You probably can’t buy them again.

Bryan Pue:

No, exactly. I’m going burn a hole through them. Seriously.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s amazing. I really appreciate both of you here. And Bonnie, you were on the show last year, I believe. I think it was August.

Bonnie Pue:

Yep.

Andrew Marcus:

Remind me, what were you talking about? You were talking about?

Bonnie Pue:

It was primarily about motherhood, parenthood, just raising kids. That kind of stuff.

Andrew Marcus:

Which I’d love to talk about a little bit more today, but for even the dads, because you guys have six boys.

Bryan Pue:

We do.

Bonnie Pue:

That’s right.

Andrew Marcus:

Which is wild. Can you tell me their ages?

Bryan Pue:

So our twins are 14. We have twin boys, Samuel and Micah. And then Hadden is 12, Charlie’s 10, Caleb is 8, and Theodore is 2.

Andrew Marcus:

2 years old!

Bryan Pue:

He’s our little COVID pandemic gift.

Andrew Marcus:

They’re going to call them quaren-tweens. I think they should call them quaren-tweens.

Bryan Pue:

I think so.

Bonnie Pue:

That’s pretty clever.

Andrew Marcus:

We had a quaren-tween baby, because it’s like, “Well, we can’t go out. What are we going to do?”

Bryan Pue:

It’s pretty cold outside. Why don’t we just…

Bonnie Pue:

He was truly a ray of sunshine though, through some of the difficulty, through that season.

Bryan Pue:

Oh, honestly, he is still just so much fun, man.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s amazing. So were you guys hoping for a girl eventually? Or were you like, “You know what? We don’t care”?

Bryan Pue:

Well, I don’t know.

Bonnie Pue:

I feel like we love little girls too. And so we’d be open either way. But no, we were never like, “Let’s go for a girl.” That was never our intention. Because we were like, “We know that we’re not in control of that kind of stuff.”

Bryan Pue:

We were pretty open-handed. You know what I mean? It’s like, what else are you supposed to do? It’s like, “Okay, we did our part, God.” But we did actually, not to go too deep, too fast, but we actually had a miscarriage in between Caleb and Theodore. And we actually, for whatever it’s worth, we had no idea, because the pregnancy actually didn’t last very long. But we had a sense like, “Oh, maybe this is our girl.” And we even named it and everything.

Bonnie Pue:

We had a name for her.

Bryan Pue:

So maybe we have a girl waiting for us. Maybe Jesus is just holding onto her for us.

Andrew Marcus:

Come on, man. We had one too in between baby one and two, we have two kids, and that was really hard, man.

Bryan Pue:

It’s real.

Andrew Marcus:

That was so hard.

Bonnie Pue:

I had no idea. That was my first experience with a miscarriage, and it gave me so much compassion for other women.

Andrew Marcus:

And it’s actually a lot more common than we think.

Bryan Pue:

It is.

Bonnie Pue:

Yeah. Even in my talking about it, and the number of women, and especially in the older generation, who then would open up about their own sorrow and grief, I just think, “Oh, these are real issues.” And I think it speaks to the strength of the maternal heart that it’s very rarely talked about, even within the church.

Andrew Marcus:

Yes. Totally. Totally. Wow. It’s not easy, but like you said, we’re not in control. We can’t control what we’re having or when we’re having. We’re hoping for more kids, but it’s not even that easy. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I enjoy trying, but.

Bryan Pue:

We’re getting a lot of practice in.

Andrew Marcus:

Honey, if you’re watching I’m sorry I said that, but-

Bryan Pue:

I promise to walk that back later. I’m so sorry.

Andrew Marcus:

But I mean, just people say, “Oh yeah, we’re going to start having kids.” Well, you can’t actually just say that. It’s a lot harder than you think. It’s not in our control. With your six boys, did you find out genders before? By four, I would say, “You know what? Let’s just stop finding out, because obviously, it’s going to be a boy.”

Bonnie Pue:

I think it was the first four we didn’t find out, and so the first three pregnancies. And then after, I think it was a little bit practical in me of like, “Am I needing other color stuff? Tell me now.” So we found out for the final two.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s awesome. We did one, where we found out and one where we didn’t. And I really enjoyed the one when we didn’t.

Bonnie Pue:

It was a fun surprise. I’d recommend that actually.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, me too, actually. What do you think?

Bryan Pue:

What do I think?

Bonnie Pue:

Would you recommend waiting?

Andrew Marcus:

I see the practicality, for sure.

Bryan Pue:

Yeah, the practicality is… There’s a lot of, especially I think in the early years when we found out it was twins, it’s like, “Oh my goodness, this is our first pregnancy and it’s twins.” And it’s within the first year.

Bonnie Pue:

Of our marriage.

Bryan Pue:

Bonnie got pregnant three months in, and then of course, down the road you find out it’s twins. You’re like, “Oh, my goodness.”

Andrew Marcus:

That’s actually so overwhelming.

Bryan Pue:

And then, dude, that was right in the middle of 2008 with the recession. I lost my job. All this kind of stuff. It was just such a crazy season. I think for a lot of people, the practicality is just like, “That’s one less thing to be stressed out about.” But at the same time too, I don’t know, I’ve heard people found out that they were pregnant, but they didn’t realize it was actually twins until they were on the deliveries.

Andrew Marcus:

How do you not?

Bonnie Pue:

I think they just assumed it was a very large pregnancy. It was their fourth.

Andrew Marcus:

But don’t they check?

Bryan Pue:

Well, this was back in the day a little bit.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, okay. So it’s like when red pants were like it.

Bonnie Pue:

Before red pants.

Andrew Marcus:

I was joking, man. Just for the record, I have red pants and I love them. I’m not bashing the red pants. I just feel like I got them a long time ago and I’m clinging on.

Bryan Pue:

It doesn’t sound like you do.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay, so let’s walk back for a moment, because I love how you talked about how you had twins, which is really overwhelming. And Daniel, who was doing hosting before, had twins as well. We call it the Mennonite Special, two for one, which is amazing, which is a little easier with food when you get-

Bryan Pue:

I have Scottish heritage, so it’s just kind of the same. We got to get the best bang for a buck here.

Andrew Marcus:

But 2008, I know a lot of people who are young, who are probably listening or watching, who are afraid to have children because they’re worried that it’s too expensive. So here you are having two children, and it’s 2008 where there’s this huge financial crisis. Can you walk us through God’s faithfulness and what you’ve learned during that time?

Bonnie Pue:

I think what I really learned, as a woman, as a stay-at-home mom, it’s a very vulnerable place, I’m just going to say that, to go, “While I’m taking care of two babies, I actually don’t have the ability to go and make a living for myself. I’m needing to rely on my husband.” And so then even, I think the question young women might face is, what if it’s too much for him? What if he leaves me? We hear lots of stories. Everyone has a friend where that happened. So you’re dealing with that type of fear, not because of anything he’s done, just simply, what if my story doesn’t work out the way I hoped? What I ended up having to do was just saying, “God is my provider. Bryan is not my provider. His employer is not my provider. The government’s not my provider.” And it was really such a stretch of my faith towards the Lord to look to him.

And honestly, the miracles that happened, we just were consistent to follow. Like, okay, he’s working hard. He would come home. He’d kind of piece his schedule together of like, “I’m going to work two days for this guy. He’s got some work for me.” I know he’d come exhausted. And I remember him going into the bedroom, getting on the phone and just calling people, “Do you need help next week? Do you need help?” So he was faithful and consistent doing what he had to do. But then we were also faithful to the principle of generosity. And I feel like those two things, honestly, miracles. People being like, “I got too much produce. Do you want a box of it?”

Bryan Pue:

And cheese just lasting longer.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s actually like miracles.

Bryan Pue:

You wouldn’t believe it unless you were walking through it. I can say all this stuff and you’d be like, “Yeah, sure that happened.” Somebody came and put money in my work boots outside the front door of our house. And I think the thing that God taught me is, because I think there is something within the heart of men and dads that they want to be a provider. And there’s even avenues for that. That’s God’s design in some ways. But I think what God showed me is that the only reason why that is deep in my own heart is because that’s in the heart of God. You know what I mean? And so, as much as I want to provide for my family and I feel the sense of responsibility, that’s only there because God has put his image on us. And so I’m only reflecting something that’s already in his heart to do.

So if me being a sinful man, you know what I mean, and a broken man want to do this, how much more does our father in heaven want to provide for us? Does he show himself faithful to provide and to make a way where there seems to be no way? It’s like that promise that, I know that the context of it is a realm of actually a correction, but in Second Chronicles where it says, “The eyes of the Lord are looking to and fro throughout the earth to show himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are fully dependent on him,” that’s a promise for us, that the Lord is looking to show himself strong on behalf of those who would trust and obey out of a heart of love that’s good to him.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s huge. Man, and just the idea of being generous in the midst of…

Bryan Pue:

Yes.

Andrew Marcus:

That is so important. And I think I’ve learned a lot of lessons through that too. Like you said, you wouldn’t believe it if you hear. You have to actually experience the living out of generosity and also, that mind shift of we’re not the providers. God provides everything we need, that mind shift and just changing that perspective changes everything. It unlocks something.

Bonnie Pue:

If I can just even add, I know that there’s a cost to raising kids, for sure. Nobody puts on the budget line how many tubes of toothpaste are just squeezed into the sink. Nobody knows how to add that up.

Andrew Marcus:

Literally, I saw a bunch of toothpaste on the counter yesterday. I’m like, “All right, that’s four bucks.”

Bonnie Pue:

We’ll just scrape it up with our toothbrush. Come on, it’s still clean.

Andrew Marcus:

This is going to last all year, kids. I don’t care if you get sick, okay?

Bryan Pue:

Or how many lights are left on in the house.

Bonnie Pue:

Totally, or just bubble bubble bath just dumped in or shampoo. You’re like, “How much did you use?” Anyway, nobody knows how to calculate that. That is costly. It does add up. And that’s just the small things. But truly, our egos are the most expensive thing as adults. Put that on your budget line. How much are you buying for the sake of appearance, for keeping up an image, for what do people think? Or, I’m going to need to trade out these red pants for a new style. I’m sorry. Is it too much? I’ll stop now.

Bryan Pue:

I’ll just be in the car.

Bonnie Pue:

I’m sorry. I even just read a, it’s an old book, but it’s a business money book. I’m reading it with the kids, just to get them thinking about finances.

Andrew Marcus:

What book is it?

Bonnie Pue:

Okay, this is almost embarrassing. It’s called, The Art of Money Getting by PT Barnum, the circus guy. But my kids know the Greatest Showman. And he just said, “If the whole world was blind, we would save a lot more money.” So how much are we buying for ourselves and how much are we actually-

Andrew Marcus:

Egos are expensive. That’s huge.

Bonnie Pue:

Way more expensive than kids are.

Bryan Pue:

Well, I do find it interesting that you think kids are expensive, and this is the same generation spending thousands of dollars on Jordans. You know what I mean?

Andrew Marcus:

Okay, I feel judged right now, because – No, I just really want Space Jams. But I don’t have them, but I want them.

Bryan Pue:

But here’s the thing, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Jordans. I love good shoes. You know what I mean? But we’ve become so brought into the shortsighted, not the long game perspective in life. It’s just like get happy now. Live for now. Don’t think about a generation or a legacy. People go out and spend tons of money on tons of different things. And things that will not be a blessing later in their life. Children are a gift from God. They are a reward from the Lord. You know what I mean? This is what the scriptures teach us.

And so I do find it interesting that even within Christianity, that sometimes children are the only blessing that the church doesn’t want. And that might hit home for some people, but we need to have a kingdom perspective and a perspective from God, not just living according to the pattern of this world. And I do just find it interesting that we’re going, how expensive it is, yet that we’ve gone on our cruise to the Mayan, or not the Mayan River. Or I don’t know, you’ve just gone on some… I don’t even know what I’m saying.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m just getting a perspective of where you want to go, the kinds of shoes, things that he can’t have.

Bryan Pue:

It’s all coming out of my soul. You know what I mean? These are just things I haven’t processed, but we’ve spent thousands of dollars on some fancy trip to somewhere. Maybe it’s a great experience. I’m all for travel. I love traveling too.

Andrew Marcus:

We just can’t use it as an excuse that kids are expensive when you’re posting on your Facebook, “Look at me. I’m over here living my best life.” That doesn’t make sense. The excuse doesn’t work.

Bryan Pue:

You brought that together really well, Andrew.

Andrew Marcus:

Sorry, man. I really do want Jordans though, and if you’re watching… No, I’m just kidding.

Bryan Pue:

Let the Lord lead you. You know what I mean?

Andrew Marcus:

If you’re feeling called, call 1-800. No.

Bryan Pue:

We’re going to take up an offering right now.

Andrew Marcus:

But that’s a great point though. You can’t complain about, it’s too expensive, because the cost of those Jordans, which are a couple hundred dollars, you can get toothpaste for two years. So the toothpaste excuse? Out the window! Shampoo, on the other hand…

Bonnie Pue:

And I will say, and this is important, because we have six kids, so then I think people could maybe feel like that we think that it’s about having the most kids. But I always just say, “This isn’t so much about how many you have.” Like you said, it’s not so much in our control. “But it’s more about what you do with the kids that you have or the kids that are around you.” And I think that if we start living differently, seeing children the way Jesus saw children, don’t stop them from coming, give them a little bit of time, acknowledge their existence, start to cultivate that, I think that’s ultimately… If you turn your heart to the kids and then let the Lord lead you as far as how large your family’s going to be or something.

Andrew Marcus:

Totally. So you guys didn’t have a plan like, “We’re going to have six.”

Bryan Pue:

No, no. Really, we were in the early stages of our marriage. And even to some of the teaching that we had been under in a discipleship school that we were a part of before we even started our relationship, was just really trying to cast a vision for the blessing of children. And just letting the Lord decide those things or kind of be God and guide you in those things. So we were just open to whatever the Lord really wanted to give us. And so I understand there’s some logical people out there. It’s like, “Well, if you do that, it’s going to get children.” You know what I mean? But that’s not always the case.

And so we’ve known people who haven’t had kids, haven’t been able to, and not for lack of trying, and that’s real. But those early stages, we just wanted to be open to what the Lord had for us. And we’re just still kind of, “God, lead us, guide us. What do you want us to do?”

Bonnie Pue:

And now we’re watching our kids just grow up. And who they are is unfolding. And I mean, it’s a lot of work, but it is a lot of joy.

Andrew Marcus:

Tell us a little bit about raising kids to love the Lord, because that’s hard to do. Of course, living out your life before them, they watch and see a lot of things.

Bryan Pue:

Well, whether it’s a blessing or not, the interesting thing about raising kids is it’s not so much what you tell them, it’s what they see. And that’s the hard thing. That’s where it gets pretty sobering too, is because I can tell, “Hey, we need to love the Lord, and we need to be patient, all right?” And it’s like, “Well, dad, you’re not-“

Andrew Marcus:

No one get angry!

Bryan Pue:

You know what I mean? It’s like, “Well, you seem like you’re sinning, dad, when you’re angry.”

Andrew Marcus:

Shut up!

Bryan Pue:

Honor your mother and father! But they do just catch that. And so I think that’s just where we’ve really purposed is we need to serve the Lord really with our whole heart and be working through our stuff and allowing, this is the purpose of God for all of us, we’d be conformed to the image of Christ. That as we behold him, we are conformed and transformed into his likeness. And so if that’s really important to us, then that’s going to show up. I will say this. I heard early on, as a dad, I heard a preacher say once, “You can’t be a good dad and a bad husband.” And so you can be a good husband and a bad dad, but you can’t be a good dad and a bad husband. So this relationship here, I need to be making sure is healthy and I’m caring for Bonnie, as I should be.

Andrew Marcus:

And they’re watching that. They see that.

Bryan Pue:

They are watching that.

Bonnie Pue:

Totally. And then I think a huge, huge piece of it would be the humility to acknowledge when you’ve messed up, as a parent. And we were youth leaders and young adult leaders for a long time. We heard a lot of stories from brokenhearted young people who were wrestling with their faith because of the hypocrisy they saw in their parents. But kids are so merciful, actually. I think kids actually long to forgive their parents and have connection with them. I find that when we apologize and repent to our kids, sometimes even I’ll give credit to the Holy Spirit, just be like, “You know what? The Lord was whispering to me that what I did was wrong yesterday.” Or my attitude, or, “I’ve been feeling sorry for myself, and that was wrong, you guys.” Or, “I’ve been demanding servanthood from you and I haven’t been serving. I’m sorry. And will you forgive me?

True repentance towards them, then I think at least they go, “Okay, I’m not expected to be a perfect person in this house, but we all are moving towards something. And I’m willing to follow people.” I think of myself. I’m willing to follow people who are humble and real. And so I think that’s important. And I do see that coming out of them now, more so that even when we correct them, or when they realize they’ve been wrong, that they’re willing to say, “I’m sorry. I was wrong.” And that’s keeping our hearts soft to each other.

Bryan Pue:

I remember a mentor of mine early on, he just made this parallel. He said that the way the Lord leads us is being a shepherd. Sheep are led while goats are driven. You know what I mean? This is a weird analogy, but this is how the Bible lays it out. We want to be cultivating sheep who are able to follow leadership. But leadership like we see that in the Lord. He goes before us. And he plans purposeful times of rest and rhythm. The shepherd goes and finds the green pastures. And he’s leading them to those. He’s not driving them. He’s going before them.

And I can admit too, there’s some times where I’ve driven and I’m surprised that, “Hey, why aren’t you behaving a sheep?” It’s like, “Well, You’re driving me.” You know what I mean? “I feel like I’m a project to you. I feel like I’m a hindrance to you or a big inconvenience.” You know? You’d just rather be somewhere else, and so that all comes out. You got to work through that.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s hard, but it’s just so sanctifying. My kids make me more like Christ. I wonder what I was like pre-kids. I was just a freaking pagan. It’s crazy.

Bryan Pue:

It’s true. But dude, I remember feeling that too, just the love I had in my heart for them. When you see them, you’re just filled with so much love. And I’m going like, “God, how do you… Again, if I’m a sinful man, how much more is your love?” And so it was healing for me and some of my own issues, my own soul stuff. God was healing me. We were actually even talking about this on the ride over. I think you were pregnant with our fourth at the time. And I had a gentleman in our church come to me and say, “Oh, I don’t know how you’re going to pay for all those kids.” I turned to him and it’s one of those prophetic moments where a word comes out before I even realize what I was going to say.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh boy, what did you say?

Bryan Pue:

I said, “Well, I think if I can trust Jesus to provide for all my sins, which are many, I think I can trust him to provide for my children who are four.”

Andrew Marcus:

And he’s like, “Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo.”

Bryan Pue:

But you want to know what he says?

Andrew Marcus:

What?

Bryan Pue:

He goes, “Yeah, I wish we had more kids.”

Andrew Marcus:

That’s what he said?

Bryan Pue:

That’s what he said.

Andrew Marcus:

I’ve never met someone who said, “I wish we had one less.” Everyone always says, “I wish we had more,” when they grow up. I’ve never heard someone say that.

Bryan Pue:

But what he was saying to me was what he felt obliged to say to me. He goes, “Oh, I don’t know how you’re going to do it.” We’re just not mindful of the things that we’re thinking and the things that we hear within the world that we’re living in. We don’t ever stop to check, is this actually true? So we just all, “Oh, you’re going to get married. Wait.” All this stuff, like wait.

Andrew Marcus:

The old ball and chain.

Bryan Pue:

Exactly. Get comfortable on that couch. You’re going to spend a lot of time there. It’s like, dude, what are you talking about?

Andrew Marcus:

Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative all the time.

Bryan Pue:

And we feel like it’s funny or something like that in the church to play off of a ideology that is completely broken. So anyways, but what actually came out in that conversation, what was really in his heart is like, “Yeah, I wish we had more kids.” Being people in ministry too, the idea in the ’80s and early ’90s was like, “Oh, you can’t do ministry and have kids.” It’s like, “A boy for me, a girl for you, and praise the Lord we’re finally through.”

Andrew Marcus:

Was that a legitimate saying?

Bryan Pue:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Or was that prophetic?

Bryan Pue:

No.

Andrew Marcus:

That was not prophetic.

Bryan Pue:

No, that was not. But that was the thought. Actually, first of all, a family is our number one ministry. This relationship before the Lord, it comes before that. But this is our greatest avenue of ministry, is being moms and dads to the next generation.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s huge. So what would you tell, ’cause I know there’s going to be people who are listening who are married and have no kids and don’t want kids, and they feel like, “Ah, it is too expensive,” or, “I want to do this still,” or, “I want to do that.” Travel, or school, or whatever, they have these kind of goals. I was just talking about this with my wife yesterday, because we see in the Bible multiple times, “Be fruitful and multiply.” So the question is though, what do you say to someone who are worried about the cost? I see a command to be fruitful and multiply. I don’t see a command to chill out, and enjoy and do whatever you want to do, and God won’t provide for kids.

Bonnie Pue:

I think that there’s just zero… I’m like, “Don’t have kids for obligation. Don’t have it for following a rule that you think you should do. That’s not going to get you very far.” But I would say if you’re feeling, even hearing this conversation, you’re feeling conviction of the Holy Spirit, where he’s going, “I want you to lean into this a little bit,” don’t start by just being like, “Okay, I’m going to have a kid.” But instead, why don’t you find a family where it looks like the parents love their kids and go to them and just maybe say like, “Hey, can I come over and wash your dishes for you?” And just watch.

Andrew Marcus:

And observe.

Bonnie Pue:

Feel what family can feel like. ‘Cause I think a lot of times, yes, we may say it’s because they’re expensive, but I think a lot of people have pain in their hearts based on a family of origin and a sense of, “I felt like I was a burden to my parents.” Or “I felt like I wasn’t actually even cultivated as a human in our home, so I don’t know what family’s supposed to feel like, and I’m terrified that I’m going to fail my kids,” might be a deeper fear. So go get in a house where there’s a family that’s trying. And then just maybe take that first step. Maybe have a conversation with someone who has a couple kids who look like they’re enjoying them and just start there.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s really huge. And if you want to wash some dishes, TheUnionMovement.com, find that family. Come over.

Bonnie Pue:

Just email Bonnie at TheUnionMovement.com and we will find a slot for you.

Andrew Marcus:

They love their children and probably could get help washing dishes. Actually, no, your kids are older though.

Bonnie Pue:

Our older three are covering most of the nights.

Bryan Pue:

We need help doing other things though.

Bonnie Pue:

That’s true. We do need help. Wash our van. That’s a big one.

Andrew Marcus:

Van Life.

Bryan Pue:

Van life is real, Swagger Wagon.

Andrew Marcus:

Gosh, this guy’s got all the lines.

Bryan Pue:

I came prepared. No, but just even thinking about the question, I understand that there’s some people who can’t have kids. And I think we’ve already covered that, but that’s a very real reality. But I think you have to check your heart when it’s like you can, and you’re choosing not to. It is an instruction for those within marriage that you, at even just a very baseline, would be thinking generationally. Let’s just say, you don’t want to have kids, but you have to be thinking generationally. There are so many kids who need a home. Maybe the Lord’s leading you to maybe… I don’t know. I’m just throwing out hypothetical scenarios to not have your own biological kids, but to adopt kids in. That’s a real thing. God can be God and do that. You know what I mean? But I think that even comes down to it. Is God allowed to be God?

Or do we have to come into the place where we have a final say on every area of our life? Or are we going to choose to let God be sovereign over our life and decide, and shape our life, shape our future, and lead us?

Andrew Marcus:

Amazing. Well, I appreciate you guys so much. I can’t wait for you guys to come on again.

Bryan Pue:

Oh, we’d love to.

Bonnie Pue:

So much fun.

Andrew Marcus:

But thank you so much for all the wisdom. And I hope you guys were blessed who are tuning in or watching or listening on podcasts. But thank you. TheUnionMovement.com, check it out, sign up, do their dishes, go to their house if you’re afraid of having children, and you’ll be blessed. Thank you so much, guys.

Bryan Pue:

Thank you.

Bonnie Pue:

Thanks for having us.

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out THE INDOUBT SHOW on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcasts. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out indoubt.ca. We have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.