Ep. 18: GENEROUS LIVING & SPIRITUAL RED FLAGS w/ Brent Smith

Andrew Marcus:

Welcome to THE INDOUBT SHOW. Happy Monday, everybody. Happy Monday.

Chris Bredeson:

Happy Monday.

Andrew Marcus:

I guess. They’re always here. Our in-house studio audience are always here. Grateful for them. They always cheer the same. It’s a little weird. Anyways. Thanks for joining us today. Happy Monday or Tuesday, Wednesday, whenever you’re watching this. We’ve got a great show for us today. It’s going to be a little bit different today. We’ve got a little bit of a different show, right Chris?

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

But I’m excited for the change. We’ve been talking about maybe doing something like this. Brendan’s actually away. So boo.

Chris Bredeson:

Boo.

Andrew Marcus:

Boo. I don’t know if we have a boo here. We don’t?

Chris Bredeson:

No boos.

Andrew Marcus:

No? No boos from the audience here.

Chris Bredeson:

All positivity.

Andrew Marcus:

All positive. Yes, we’re all happy all the time. But yeah, Brendan’s out. So we have a guest in the third chair. But before we introduce him, Chris, you had a good weekend?

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah, it was really good.

Andrew Marcus:

It was pretty good?

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Pretty chill?

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Anything exciting? Anything happen?

Chris Bredeson:

I’m trying to think.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, sometimes-

Chris Bredeson:

Oh, what we talked about. I got a sunburn on my head.

Andrew Marcus:

You got a sunburn on your head, a stripe.

People don’t understand. Yeah, just a stipe from the helmet.

Chris Bredeson:

From the helmet. Yeah, from biking. So it was really embarrassing.

Andrew Marcus:

So next time you just have to kind of just sunscreen that strip.

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah, just the one strip. Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

People don’t understand the challenges with bald men that we face.

Chris Bredeson:

It’s true.

Andrew Marcus:

There’s a lot of challenges. For me, when I shaved my head, my hair was like antennas, so I would avoid hitting my head on things. And now that it’s bald, I just bonk my head on everything. I just have no frame of reference of where things are.

Chris Bredeson:

I know, right?

Andrew Marcus:

So anyways, if your bald, shut out, comment below. We hear you and we see you and we think you look awesome. Anyways.

Chris Bredeson:

That’s right.

Andrew Marcus:

My weekend was pretty good. No sunburns on my head, but it was a good weekend, full weekend. Kids had birth friends birthday parties. My little boy, he’s starting to get pretty popular, I think. And so he is getting invited all these birthday parties, which is pretty fun. So we had that. And then my wife next week we’re interviewing Ray Comfort, which I’m very excited about. But my wife went to at our home church. We put on a clinic on Friday night called Way of the Master where they go through Ray Comfort’s teachings on evangelism. And then she went on the streets Saturday morning and just went to a park and just shared the gospel and asked questions and handed out tracks. So it was really, really cool. So it was just a full weekend, but it was a good weekend.

And I’m excited about today though. I couldn’t sleep yesterday. I don’t know if it was because I was so excited about today or if I’m just getting old and I just can’t sleep. I don’t know. But I’m going to lean towards I’m excited.

Chris Bredeson:

There you go. I’m sure you are.

Andrew Marcus:

We have a guest in third chair with us and he’s going to be coming every now and then, which I’m really pumped about. And so we thought we should have a theme song for him just since it’s going to be a regular thing. I don’t know if I want that or just because I always just picture myself like a WWE wrestler where I walk into a room. And side note-

Chris Bredeson:

With the spandex or…

Andrew Marcus:

No, we have INDOUBT swag. Go to indoubt.ca. We have wrestling outfits. But no, I remember always doing this at my old church. I would walk into rooms and I’d play WWE wrestlers theme song and I’d enter.

Chris Bredeson:

Like before you preached or just-

Andrew Marcus:

No. Not before I preached, but when I led worship. No, just walking around. So I opened the door, play the song and just open the door and I’d walk into pretty serious meetings, not on purpose. And it was really embarrassing. So I thought we need to have third chair theme music like they’re wrestlers. So when you hear this.

Chris Bredeson:

Okay. Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

So smooth. Just hit straight to the soul. You’re going to know we have Pastor Brent Smith from Riverside Calvary Chapel. Now, why did I choose that music, buddy?

Brent Smith:

That is awesome, man. I don’t know why you chose that, but I don’t know if I would’ve chose that for myself. What is going on?

Andrew Marcus:

So I wanted to do Too Legit to Quit MC Hammer, but we don’t have the budget for the copyright.

Brent Smith:

That was the last show, Too Legit to Quit.

Andrew Marcus:

I know. And so I wanted too yell too legit, too legit to quit. Boom. When you hear that, you know.

Chris Bredeson:

You could just done that.

Andrew Marcus:

Am I legally allowed to do that?

Chris Bredeson:

Maybe not. We’ll have to run it past our lawyers.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, we’ll talk to our lawyers on retainer and see if we’re allowed to.

Brent Smith:

I like that. You know what? You know what’s funny? We never talked about this, but I was a huge wrestling fanatic growing up and I never thought about having a wrestler walkout theme. I think I need that.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay. So the reason why we chose that song, I was trying to go through a list of the songs we’re allowed to use that are royalty free. And this one was called Riverside.

Brent Smith:

It’s called Riverside.

Andrew Marcus:

And so I’m like, you know what? Maybe it’s from God. Yeah. I don’t know.

Brent Smith:

I don’t know. That could go in a lot of different directions with that song.

Andrew Marcus:

But know that I wanted Too Legit to Quit and I couldn’t get it.

Brent Smith:

That’s awesome. Too Legit to Quit.

Andrew Marcus:

But that’s wonder you were wrestling fan. I was a huge wrestling fan growing up as a kid.

Brent Smith:

Were you really?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, I liked the Rock Rock.

Brent Smith:

We’ve got a lot to talk about.

Andrew Marcus:

The Undertaker, Kane.

Brent Smith:

I was back in the day even before all those guys, man. I mean, Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Rick Flair, Dusty Rhodes. Man, those guys were like, oh. You know what? And the other weekend I went to the Cloverdale Rodeo. I had no idea they were doing a full wrestling show there. So I got to go to a live wrestling show.

Andrew Marcus:

Have you ever been to a live-

Brent Smith:

I did?

Andrew Marcus:

Oh yeah. I went once.

Brent Smith:

One time.

Andrew Marcus:

I went once to just see the Rock.

Brent Smith:

Ultimate Warrior. So I had Ultimate Warrior.

Andrew Marcus:

Did you used to watch wrestling?

Brent Smith:

And he came running out.

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

You did?

Chris Bredeson:

I think it’s a generational thing, like nineties.

Brent Smith:

Got to be, yeah.

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Brent Smith:

Ultimate Warrior came running out to the ring, tripped on some cables, slid along the floor, had the belt on. It was just awesome. Loved it.

Chris Bredeson:

That’s amazing.

Brent Smith:

That was the highlight right there.

Andrew Marcus:

I used to watch all the time and then I used to thought the storylines were so awesome. Vince McMahon, all these different things, whatever. And then I watched it recently. I was just flipping through and I’m like, I wonder what they’re doing. I’m like, this is so cheesy and I’m like-

Brent Smith:

It’s so cheesy now.

Andrew Marcus:

It was not cheesy when I was younger.

Brent Smith:

No, it wasn’t.

Andrew Marcus:

Or was It?

Brent Smith:

It was not cheesy when I was watching. When you guys were watching it was starting to get cheesy. I tuned out in that era and now it’s even just gone way over the top.

Andrew Marcus:

Moral of the story, it’s always cheesy.

Brent Smith:

Always cheesy. Fun stuff.

Andrew Marcus:

Anyways. But you had a good weekend? You probably had a busy weekend because you were at that Way of the Master.

Brent Smith:

I had a great weekend. I went to the evangelism training on Friday and took that in. That’s awesome. I love what Way of the Master does and in the approach to sharing the gospel. So good. So we had a great group out from our church getting trained about that. And then Saturday actually had a couple baseball games. We got a church team and played a couple games and nursed the muscles after that game. So I’m always afraid. I’m afraid to just run to first base now. I’m feeling like I’m going to pull a hamstring.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh God. Hey dude, with my freaking pinched nerve. It’s like that just happened.

Brent Smith:

You Hobbling around here.

Andrew Marcus:

I don’t know how it happened. I just literally had my birthday, boom.

Brent Smith:

There it goes, it just changes.

Andrew Marcus:

And now it’s lik-,

Brent Smith:

Good weekend. Then my wife and I went down to the States for the first time in a long time together and went for a bike ride down to Semiahamoo and had dinner out there on Sunset. It’s just beautiful.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so fun.

Brent Smith:

Met some friends from the States down there. Had a great, great weekend. And then church, I mean, church is always the best part of the weekend.

Andrew Marcus:

Yes, church is.

Brent Smith:

We’re blessed.

Andrew Marcus:

I have to say that because you’re my pastor. Imagine. You know what? I dread the days, counting down. Oh crap, it’s Sunday. No, I’m just kidding.

Brent Smith:

Sunday. Man, I have to go.

Andrew Marcus:

No, it was a great message yesterday. I’ll say it in front of everybody. It was actually really good. And I want to talk a little bit about what you talked about yesterday.

Brent Smith:

Cool.

Andrew Marcus:

Just want to remind you guys again, every Monday we air at 10:00 AM. But like, subscribe, hit the notification bell, do all those things. I think talking about Christian content and being overtly Christian we’re probably getting pretty far back on the algorithms. And so by liking, subscribing, doing all those things, I think it just helps us get the message of truth out there because I think the word is in desperate need to truth. And Oh, I think… Did you guys hear that? I think it’s breaking news. We have breaking news.

All right. So this is actually crazy. This is just in. I’m just getting this on my earbuds. I have earbuds inside my headphones. So it’s separate.

Brent Smith:

This is like leaks?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, yeah, it’s a big leak right now.

Brent Smith:

Wow. You guys aren’t sparing any expenses.

Andrew Marcus:

No, this is legit. So I just heard right now that on Amazon, this is true, okay, the reality is the occult is being glamorized. Glamorized?

Brent Smith:

Glamorized, sure.

Andrew Marcus:

Glamorized. Yeah, that’s the word.

Brent Smith:

I’ll use that.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, that’s a word. It’s getting popular in a glamorous way. Anyways. So people are just dabbling with spiritual things and kind of it’s in TV shows, all that kind of stuff. So this just in, amazon.com, they have a Christian Ouija board.

Brent Smith:

Get out of here. How does that work? I’ve not heard about this.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s a legitimate Christian Ouija board. It’s for Christian people and it looks like it’s targeted towards children and young adults.

Brent Smith:

You’re kidding.

Andrew Marcus:

And so that’s why this is-

Brent Smith:

That is truly breaking news.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m going to show you guys the picture here and we’re going to show the picture on the screen here. Mateo could put that up, but I’m not lying. Here it is. There it is, the Holy Spirit board.

Brent Smith:

It’s called the Holy Spirit Board?

Andrew Marcus:

The Holy Spirit Board.

Brent Smith:

So wait, do they actually say Ouija at all with it or-

Andrew Marcus:

No.

Brent Smith:

No? Okay.

Andrew Marcus:

No, it says the Holy Spirit Board and it says, communicate directly with Jesus Christ.

Brent Smith:

Oh my goodness.

Chris Bredeson:

What were we doing before that?

Brent Smith:

 I don’t know. I never had a board.

Andrew Marcus:

I never had a board.

Brent Smith:

I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time.

Andrew Marcus:

Christian religious talking board. Wow. Okay. Get the answers you need. This is the description. You guys ready for this?

Chris Bredeson:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Get the answers you need. The Holy Spirit board can answer all of life’s most important questions straight from the man himself.

Brent Smith:

Oh my goodness.

Andrew Marcus:

Huge 12 by 18 inch game board. Huge. Huge.

Brent Smith:

Huge.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s going to be huge with beautiful artwork featuring the crucifixion and the angels of heaven.

Chris Bredeson:

What?

Andrew Marcus:

Beautiful golden magic cross.

Brent Smith:

Wait, magic golden cross?

Andrew Marcus:

What’s it called, planchette? What is that? I might be saying it wrong. It’s the thing that they use.

Brent Smith:

Do they actually put their hands on a thing and it’s supposed to move around?

Andrew Marcus:

Yes, that big cross.

Brent Smith:

Oh my goodness.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s the cross.

Brent Smith:

It’s the cross now.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, it’s the cross.

Chris Bredeson:

Oh my.

Andrew Marcus:

Perfect for churches, prayer groups or just getting together with friends. Unlike other spirit boards, this one will never contact evil ghosts or demons. So you can ask your questions with an assurance and a sense of safety.

Brent Smith:

Is this not Babylon B? This sounds like a Babylon B article.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s legitimately… Let’s see how many ratings it got.

Chris Bredeson:

Can they guarantee any of that stuff?

Andrew Marcus:

30 ratings. It’s rated 4.3 out of five.

Chris Bredeson:

Well, that’s got a good rating.

Brent Smith:

First rating is from Anton Levee, I think. Thumbs up.

Andrew Marcus:

First one is a Joseph. Joseph gives a little rating here. I challenge you to read the four gospel chapters of the Bible before purchasing this. He gave it a one. He gave it a one.

Brent Smith:

Oh my goodness.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, and then another person one. This is divination. It’s disguised Ouija. Okay. Thank you.

Brent Smith:

Good. Okay. People are speaking truth into that.

Andrew Marcus:

There you go.

Brent Smith:

It’s good. Well,

Andrew Marcus:

Okay. Wow, this person, top reviewer, someone in America. The other ones were Canadian. So obviously…

Chris Bredeson:

That’s good.

Andrew Marcus:

Direct line to Jesus. Got this as a last resort because I’m in dire need to speak to Jesus. That’s actually really sad. And he seemed to be avoiding all my prayers. After setting it up, at one minute and 16 seconds I made contact.

Brent Smith:

Oh my goodness.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s been a while now and I feel that we are connecting so well. I asked him to move in with me yesterday and now he seems to be avoiding me again. Did I come on too strong?

Brent Smith:

Well, that’s getting a little creepy.

Andrew Marcus:

Did he find someone else? Am I too clingy? I wish he would tell me what’s wrong. That’s actually really sad.

Brent Smith:

It is sad, yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s really sad.

Brent Smith:

But it reveals, doesn’t it, that there’s a hunger out there to hear from God, but they’re going about it all the wrong ways. And I think we kind of foster that too much by all this revelation and new revelation that people claim to have instead of just going to the word of God and letting God speak to us. That’s how he reveals himself. And so it’s sad that there’s a market for something like that.

Andrew Marcus:

And reviews. It has a bunch of reviews that are actually five star. And I wanted to read some of the reviews because I thought it’d be funny. And now I’m reading like, this is actually almost going to make you try this.

Chris Bredeson:

Well, it’s hard to tell if they’re being serious or not, but…

Andrew Marcus:

That’s actually crazy, man.

Brent Smith:

That is really bizarre.

Andrew Marcus:

But this is the reality. So should we tell people? What do we tell people who are dabbling with a Holy Spirit board?

Brent Smith:

To throw it out right away. I mean, we-

Andrew Marcus:

You take that huge 18 by 12 board, man and you just rip it up.

Brent Smith:

I mean, I think you can definitely say it’s a spirit board, but what spirit are you going to be hearing from? And I think that’s the way that the enemy loves to come in and deceive and masquerade as an angel of light. And I think there’s certainly opening the door for something to happen. But people just need to see that God has already given us his word and we just need to stand upon it, live by it, and get into the word of God, the Bible and you’re going to hear from the Lord. He’s going to speak to you.

And so, like I said, it certainly reveals there’s a market for that. There’s a hunger for that, but people are going about it all the wrong way sadly.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, it’s true. People are hungry. People are hungry and they’re searching. And it actually reminds me, I wasn’t planning to talk about this, but a few weeks back my wife and I went to Jordan Peterson at the Abbotsford Entertainment Center. I was very curious.

Brent Smith:

My wife went to that too.

Andrew Marcus:

Did she?

Brent Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. And I was really curious. I mean, the guy’s obviously a genius. When he speaks, it kind of goes over my head. It actually goes around my head and sucker punches me in the forehead because he is just a very, very smart man. But I always watch just the little clips of Jordan Peterson. I haven’t heard him talk for two and a half hours. So I was just very curious and we thought, okay, this guy’s obviously a huge voice in today’s culture. This is history. We have to go. He’s in our neighborhood.

So we went and we’re on the drive back and my wife just asked me, “If you can just describe the whole night in one word, what would it be?” And for some reason the word that just came out right away was sad. I was actually kind of sad. And he’s speaking a lot of truth and he has a lot of wisdom and insight. He’s obviously a very, very smart man. But just the idea of behavior modification is kind of the pathway to hope. And he talks about manifesting and it’s some interesting practices along that way.

And so I was just sad because the room was packed of 6,000 people, many young adults who were dressed really nice and excited about this opportunity and they’re leaving still with a hopeless message, but they’re hungry just like this reviewer. They’re so hungry for truth and for a connection and for understanding and I guess I was just sad that this building is packed with them.

Brent Smith:

And that’s really interesting, isn’t it? Because here’s Jordan Peterson, like you say, who’s a voice right now in the culture that has got a large following. I mean, there’s a lot of people that are listening because there’s that vacuum of there being some kind of solid, substantial and he does have a lot of interesting things to share, but he’s missing it by just a little bit because the ultimate truth and only real solution for man’s problem is Jesus. And so that’s the key.

Andrew Marcus:

And so he gave a lot of great points and a lot of great things like how to love your wife well. Okay, that’s really good. Keep it playful, keep it fun. Go on dates. Okay, that’s really good practical information for married couples, but he’s just missing that one thing and that’s the most important piece. The puzzle won’t be solved unless that piece is in.

Brent Smith:

That’s good. That’s good picture.

Andrew Marcus:

And it just made me sad that people are coming, they’re just taking it all in and then they’re going to go leave and just do this behavior modification. And I’m not opposed to becoming a better person. I’m not saying don’t do that, but it’s just not the pathway to hope and peace.

Brent Smith:

Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I love the show here, bro. You’re doing a great job of just being that voice and presenting truth in this day.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise God, man.

Brent Smith:

I think you’re going to be in the new Jordan Peterson.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay.

Chris Bredeson:

There you go.

Andrew Marcus:

I better get smarter and talk like kermit the frog.

Brent Smith:

Just maybe a suit would help.

Andrew Marcus:

And maybe I should at least clean up a little bit.

Brent Smith:

Maybe something like that could help. But otherwise you’re doing pretty good.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise the Lord. Well, I think this should transition quite well. So this show’s going to look a little different today. We’re not having a specific segment where we’re going into an interview with someone on Zoom or someone in person. The interview is kind of just incorporated in today’s episode. So it’s just going to be a time where we’re just going to hang out. Chris could ask questions too. We’re just going to have a good time. But I think it’s a good segue into A Dangerous Doctrine because people are looking for truth and a lot of people are preaching not truth. So let’s do dangerous doctrines.

Okay. Okay. This is going to be a good one. There’s actually two dangerous doctrines I want to go through today. So we have time though. I think it’s going to be good. The first one is I’ve been seeing Bible teachers, I use that term loosely, I should be careful, talking about this idea that Jesus, his work on the cross basically wasn’t enough and that he actually went to hell for three days. He fought for three days, actually got saved in hell. Maybe some of you have never even heard this theology, but a lot of people are preaching something similar that he had to go to hell three days. And then when he was raised, everything was officially completed. And so I have a couple of quotes from some of these “preachers.”

So here’s one of them. “By his grace, because of the blood of Jesus, because of the great resurrection, the result of his going to hell on our behalf suffered there beyond human concept. Jesus volunteered to go to hell. And I got to tell you something, aint nobody ever got out of there,” is what he said. So I’m like, okay, that’s interesting. Another quote, “Jesus became sin. Now he’s in the pit of hell. He’s down there, he’s in there suffering like no man has ever suffered. Death and all of hell’s whatever have piled up on him and they’re attacking him, basically trying to annihilate this one called the Son of God.”

So I saw these preachers preaching this and I realized, okay, this is actually a pretty popular theology in the prosperity word of faith movement. I think a lot of them believe this is kind of the reality that Jesus went down. But I just have some questions. And number one, Jesus’ words on the cross, he said, “It is finished.” He didn’t say, yeah. “Oh, we’re just getting started. Stay tuned.”

Brent Smith:

Stay tuned. More to come.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m going to go fight to fight. More to come. It seems like the atoning work was done.

Brent Smith:

Absolutely.

Andrew Marcus:

So walk us through where they even maybe get some of this teaching or is there anything in scripture that kind of point to him actually going to hell?

Brent Smith:

Well, there are scriptures of course that they will kind of take and use, but the problem is with many in this camp of the word faith camp, prosperity preachers as they twist scriptures around to make it fit or say what they’re trying to say with their theology and with their teaching. I mean, it’s in the apostle’s creed that Jesus went to hell. Now, I’ve heard some say that Wayne Grudem, for instance, says that that wasn’t actually in the original Apostle’s Creed that it got added. I’m not an expert on that exactly when that kind of came in, but this gets tied into what we read in the Apostle’s creed that Jesus went to hell.

Now, I don’t know why a teacher in the word faith camp would need Jesus to go to hell. What is the purpose of that other than to suffer more for sin, to pay this ultimate price. But the fact is that Jesus already did that in his suffering leading up to the cross, being crucified on the cross, a spear thrust in his side. I mean, Jesus already suffered, died. And like you said, so fittingly, he proclaimed, “It is finished.” And then “into your hands I commit my spirit, father.” So Jesus had paid the ultimate price there on the cross.

Now, we have scriptures, for instance, I’ll read like Ephesians four. So here’s a couple passages that some of these teachers would take to try to fit this teaching around. So Ephesians four verse nine. “Now, this he ascended. What does it mean? But that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth. “And he” speaking of Jesus, “who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens that he might fill all things and he himself gave some to be apostles.” Goes on to give that passage there then.

So it talks about him descending lower parts of the earth. Now one thing, and feel free to interject any time here, but one thing I think that people fail to really realize is that when we’re talking about hell, typically we’re referring to the lake of fire, which is a coming place of doom and eternal punishment. Nobody’s in the lake of fire right now. The lake of fire is empty but that is the final place of the damned in a sense. And so right now those that die are in a place called Hades. Now, Jesus talked about this in Luke 16 with the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man went into Hades after his death and it says that Lazarus went into Abraham’s bosom. So it was as though this place of the dead was compartmentalized, divided into compartments, Hades and Abraham’s bosom. And Hades was a place of torment. The rich men’s asking and pleading for some just to even dip their finger in water and give it. Whereas in Abraham’s bosom, this is the place that those that died in faith of God’s promises still to be realized in and through Jesus Christ was there in a waiting period in a sense.

And then we know as Jesus descended, it would seem, and you can have differing views, interpretations of scripture, it was as though he was proclaiming now that the work is done, the work is complete, the promise that you’ve been waiting for has now arrived. And it says there also that he and is quoting a passage in old testament that in Ephesians four verse eight, “When he ascended on high, he led captivity free and gave gifts to men.” So it’s as though he emptied Abraham’s bosom and said just as he said to the thief on the cross, “today you’ll be with me in paradise.”

It’s interesting. Jesus didn’t say to the thief on the cross, “I’ll see you in hell.” Wouldn’t that be amazing? “Hey, remember me, Jesus.” “Yeah, I’ll see you in hell.”

Andrew Marcus:

Or at least say, “Hey, you go to paradise. I’ll be there in a couple days. I just got to days take care of a couple of things.”

Brent Smith:

A few days. “Yeah. I’ll be there soon,” but no, “today you’ll be with me in paradise.” Jesus didn’t ascend into hell. Jesus didn’t have to suffer any longer. He’d already completed the work very clearly on the cross. But now Hades is filled with those that died apart from faith in God and that’s why Revelation says that in the end at that last judgment, that death and Hades is going to give up the dead and it’s going to be cast in the lake of fire. So those that have died with faith in God’s promises before Jesus were in Abraham’s bosom, but we believe has been emptied out, Jesus let them free just as the thief on the cross would be with Jesus in paradise.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good, man. It’s so good. And I heard some of these teachers as well talking about how when Jesus was in hell, he was the first reborn man because Jesus had to become saved.

Brent Smith:

Yeah, that Jesus had to be born again. He was first born of the dead. It’s ludicrous. And again, the purpose for saying or the objective that they’re trying to reach in saying something like that is just over my head. It’s beyond me. I don’t even know why they would need to proclaim that.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s so crazy. And so I feel like-

Brent Smith:

Other than to say, and I’ll throw this out there, this is just popped into my head.

Andrew Marcus:

Do it.

Brent Smith:

Other than to say Jesus himself had to go through this to be now born again and to reach that status. Because what a lot of people will say in these camps again is that we ourselves can become like God in a sense. And so if Jesus had to go through these same things and now ascend as God, well, we too can now do it. If he had to be born again and become God, we too can now be born again and become like God or a god. And some of them will proclaim these kinds of truths that that we have a little God in us, that we have this seed of deity that just needs to be released.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. We talked about that once in A Dangerous Doctrine like little God theology. And again, that’s all Word of faith kind of prosperity camp where they talk about we are little gods, like I am a God.

Brent Smith:

So to say something like that, Jesus had to go through this, had to be born again. Well, if he had to go through all that, there’s hope for you too. You can be just like that as well.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. Wow.

Brent Smith:

Crazy, isn’t it?

Andrew Marcus:

It’s crazy. And I honestly don’t know how people listen to these people, but they’re so popular. Millions and millions and millions of followers.

Brent Smith:

That’s the grievous thing for me is to see how many people follow along with that. But again, because they’re not in the word, they’re not getting the truth, they’re reaching for something that’s going to help them, make them feel good, give them hope. And sadly, it’s false promises.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s false promises. I remember even hearing one guy in this camp when I was kind of looking through different theologies to choose for Dangerous Doctrines, which there’s a lot of options, which is sad. But he was talking about how Jesus or God can’t give or take life. He can’t do it. He said he can’t do it because now there’s like this law where God can’t intervene with humanity anymore. So he said, when we pray we’re actually giving God permission to kind of enter into humanity and do whatever we say. They just say that. And then he said God can’t give or take life because we read through scripture, life and death is in the tongue. And guess whose tongue? Your tongue. My tongue. So we have the ability to give life and to take life.

Brent Smith:

And to speak these things into existence, right?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. Craziness.

Brent Smith:

My goodness.

Andrew Marcus:

Crazy. Okay. So that’s one thing. So are we saying then that obviously Jesus didn’t go into the lake of fire, but that he did descend to Hades?

Brent Smith:

Well, again, that’s up for interpretation. Now, I would say that he proclaimed this truth and kind of let people see and know, man, the promise has arrived. First Peter chapter three says again that he preached to the spirits in prison. Some would say this is again at that time after his death that he proclaimed this truth. Some believe he’s speaking to certain fallen angels that were in a specific place of imprisonment kept for end days. So again, there’s different interpretations there on that. But some would claim first Peter three as being that Jesus spoke to those that were in that place of Abraham’s bosom and released them and set them free.

But again, Jesus is omnipresent. It’s not that he’s just one place and that’s it, that there’s this omnipresence. So it could be that here he is, he’s in heaven. He’s with the Father but he’s proclaiming this truth now that’s taken place. And so I hold those things kind of not dogmatically, like this is what happened. But I read that the Bible says he descended to lower parts of the earth and I believe it’s to free those that were awaiting for that were waiting for that promise to be delivered and he was that promise.

Andrew Marcus:

It always blows my mind when people say, “Oh, I don’t like reading the Bible. It’s boring.” This is honestly the most action packed, amazingly and alive, living and active and it penetrates and it changes. And you can read the same story a hundred times and be blessed in a different way because it’s alive.

Brent Smith:

It is so exciting.

Andrew Marcus:

Man.

Brent Smith:

God’s word is just fun, man.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s so exciting and so life giving. Praise God.

Chris Bredeson:

Actually, that brought up a thought that I’ve heard Dr. John talk about before and it’s just another sort of in the camp of this idea with hell, people saying that hell is hell because it’s away from Jesus’ presence and that’s also a very common misconception of what it is. But like you said, he’s omnipresent. So he’s there as well.

Brent Smith:

“Where can I go from the spirit of the Lord?” Psalm says, “and it’s even in the place of Sheol, which is Hades. You’re there, right? Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s really interesting. Yeah. I love the Bible.

Brent Smith:

I think that’s why the Bible, why there’s going to be such torment is because they know the existence of God. And it’s like, I missed it. I failed to believe that truth. I rejected it and here I am now suffering because I rejected Him and they know the existence of God.

Andrew Marcus:

Man. Oh man. That’s very insightful though. And I never thought about that reality, but that is another misconception. And so we encourage you to be in your Bibles. The Bible is the best book and the only book that is alive. And we encourage you to do that because it just gives life and feeds your soul. We’re going to be transitioning into our topic for today. We want to talk about generosity. And I thought one more dangerous doctrine just on this prosperity movement because they have a different twist on generosity and I kind of wanted to walk through that. And this is a good time to also let you know that for the month of June it’s our fiscal year end. And so we’re going to give you tons of opportunities to be generous. You don’t know, but behind the camera, we have one of our camera guys turning the camera on and off on a different camera because it overheats. And so you can contribute financially and we will not be at risk of fire.

But no, we do encourage you. You can go to in doubt.ca and I think it’s donate on the top bar there. But that’s for the whole month of June. But we want to talk about prosperity gospel again and I’m going to read you a couple quotes and then we’ll just talk about a biblical perspective of generosity, what does it look like and how can we live that out? So quote number one, there’s three quotes. I love that scripture that says, “When you help those in need, you are lending to the Lord and he will repay you.” That is what you do each week or every time you give, you are lending to God and God will repay you. It’s one quote.

Quote number two. “You see, God is my business partner and my giving to him is his cut. And if I rip off his cut, why should he bless me? I started giving on that level so that God would owe me.”

Brent Smith:

Wow. Wow. Ouch.

Andrew Marcus:

And then it’s kind of quiet in the room and he says, “Oh, y’all hear what I’m saying, do you? You can’t even handle that, it’s so…” okay. “Giving on the level where I put God in debt and God said, I’ll owe no man. So I started giving on the money that I wanted to make. I started giving on the deals that hadn’t closed yet and God had to open up the windows of heaven and pull out a blessing because God wasn’t going to be in debt to me.” That’s quote two.

Last quote. “The Bible talks about giving and receiving.” This one’s really funny. “God has taught me by studying the word that receiving another way to say it is receipting.” So the word receiving means receipting. So it’s said that when you give, you get a receipt in heaven so that when you have a need, you can then go with your receipt and say, ‘See God, I got my receipt from my sowing and now I have a need and I’m cashing out my’-

Brent Smith:

I’m cashing it.

Andrew Marcus:

“cashing in my receipt.”

Brent Smith:

I missed some of those yesterday. Those would’ve been helpful.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. That was. Pastor Brent spoke on generosity yesterday at church and I just thought, okay, we need to walk through biblical generosity. There’s a lot of people who think if you sow, you’re going to get back financially from some of these prosperity teachers. And I know you mentioned you’ve been looking through your Bible for this.

Brent Smith:

Yeah, the prosperity gospel, man, sounds exciting. I love it. I would be like, yeah, bring it on. I’m in. I’m in. I’ll take it. If I give, I’m going to get back. I like that. The problem is it’s just not in the Bible. And I’ve looked hard. I’ve looked hard. I’ve searched for this. I would like it to be true. I’m like, “Lord, please give me something to go with this.” And I can’t find it in the Bible.

Andrew Marcus:

Dang it. Dang it.

Brent Smith:

And the way again that they just kind of twist scriptures around to be very… And here’s the problem, is it becomes very self-serving. It’s all about my personal gain, my personal blessing, my own consumption of things. And the gospel they twist around to be all about you. you become the center of that gospel message within that prosperity teaching and word faith. And that is so wrong because Jesus says, listen, if anyone wants to come after me, let him do it. Let him deny himself. Take up his cross daily and follow me. In other words, man, it’s not about you. You got to learn to lay yourself down and learn to live in Christ and make Jesus it. He’s the one that we’re living for and it’s not just who we’re living for. He’s our life and we trust that He’s going to take care of us. He’s going to provide, but he does it in a way for his glory and not our benefit.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s huge.

Brent Smith:

But his glory always becomes to our benefit because that’s what we live for. Our very lives exist for the glory of God. So if he’s being glorified, then that’s going to be to my blessing. And if he can be glorified through my trusting in him through my dark days, my days of poverty, if he can be glorified through it, then so be it. That’s going to be to my blessing then.

Andrew Marcus:

Yep. And you talked about it. It’s not bad to be wealthy. It’s not bad. I see a lot of people kind of go the opposite direction and just really, really preach poverty and they have raggedy clothes and they kind of boast about the poverty that they’re living because that’s godly. I think they’re both just two extremes.

Brent Smith:

Yeah, it is two extremes. You’re right. It’s not wrong to have money. I’ve often said and you’ve probably heard it from others too, but it’s not wrong to have money as long as money doesn’t have you, as long as you don’t become a slave to that, where that becomes your kind of soul pursuit in life is more and more. See, God gifts and blesses people with money. There are people that are very wealthy because God has enabled them to be wealthy. And for those of you that are watching this show right now, God would just have… Oh, is that the right time to say that? Sorry.

Andrew Marcus:

You could pitch it. Yeah,

Brent Smith:

I could pitch it? Okay. For those of you that are gifted-

Andrew Marcus:

If you sow-

Brent Smith:

For those of you that are gifted with finances because-

Andrew Marcus:

If you sow today.

Brent Smith:

Here you go.

Andrew Marcus:

Get a free green handkerchief that you can wave and People are…

Brent Smith:

God has blessed people and there are many people that have been very wealthy but wise with their money and use their money, not for personal benefit, but to see just the work of the Lord unfold in different ministries, they bless ministries. They’re not doing so for their own personal gain and glory, it’s all for the Lord. And so yeah, it’s not wrong to have money, but to be good stewards of it. And that’s the thing. And we do recognize that everything we have is from God. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. It comes down from the father of light. And so we recognize he’s the one that gives us all that we need and he’s entrusted us to be stewards of it.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. And it’s all his.

Brent Smith:

It’s all his.

Andrew Marcus:

I think just getting a perspective.

Chris Bredeson:

And that’s like the tying thread through all those quotes is they’re coming from the perspective of, oh, this is my money. I’m giving it to God. I’m lending it to God when it’s the other way around.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m giving him His cut.

Chris Bredeson:

It’s like, no, God’s actually giving it to you.

Andrew Marcus:

Isn’t it?

Chris Bredeson:

These are God’s resources.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah.

Chris Bredeson:

So it’s completely backwards.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s completely backwards. And we always try when we pray with the kids or whatever, we just remind them, we’re using God’s dishwasher. We’re using God’s house. We’re in God’s car and the food you’re eating is God’s, everything we have. And my son was driving us because we were talking about that on the way to his birthday party he was going to. And he is like, “Wait. So does God own that airplane?” I’m like, “Yep.” And he starts naming obviously for the hour drive every single thing he sees. But it’s like, yes, that’s his. Everything is God’s. And I love what you said in your message yesterday. It’s like, “Don’t give to get, give because you already got.” Yeah. It’s like he’s given us everything in Christ.

Brent Smith:

Yeah. And that’s the thing is what’s your motivation in giving? And what they do in these false teachings, these dangerous doctrines, is they make it all about you give because now your motivation is what it’s going to do for you in the sense of what you’re going to get back now. And what happens in that is that you make God the responder. We make ourselves the initiator. We’re going to initiate something and God now has to respond to us. And that’s a problem in a lot of false teachings is that we put God on the other side where now we do something and God has to act, that God is indebted to us.

God is always the initiator. He’s God of all good things. He’s the one that always is the one doing and we’re the ones that are responding in our worship. Even in worship, sometimes we worship in a way where we’re trying to incite a response from God. If I do this this this way, if I say this many hallelujahs, if I sing really loud, God’s going to respond now. No, we’re worshiping because God’s already initiated such blessing upon us and we’re now responding to what God’s already done. We’re not trying to get God to do something. Same in our giving. We’re not trying to get God to do something, it’s because God’s already done everything for us and now we’re responding to what he’s done in our giving and in our acts of worship. And that’s what giving really is, it’s just an act of worship before God.

Andrew Marcus:

And so where do they get this twisted? I know there’s obviously certain passages where they just kind of twist. Even when we were talking about yesterday in church, the sowing of… They take the sowing of the seed and reaping financial reward.

Brent Smith:

And that’s just it, right? They use scripture like this. So we were looking at second Corinthians nine, six, “but this I say. He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.” So now they twist that around to, again, make this about material blessings. Paul’s not saying this is just materially. This can be materially, it can be spiritually. But again, when you twist it around to say this is what God has to do now. And when you give, you’re going to be blessed, you’re going to be rich. And in the whole prosperity gospel where it’s all about wealth and health, they make it all about you have to sow into this to get this in return.

So unless you’re sowing, you’re not going to be reaping. But again, they make it all about a personal gratification, a personal blessing. It makes it all about you. You’re the one that’s going to… And it’s not just to them reaping spiritually, it’s all about reaping materially. And like we said yesterday, they’re going to give you opportunity to sow that seed by saying, “Sow into our ministry. Here you go, and God’s going to bless you.” Meanwhile, they’re the ones that are prospering and being blessed and people are just sewing into their poverty because they’re giving to the wrong things here and with the wrong motive.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s so sad because there’s a lot of people who do it. And I wonder for the people who have honest hearts who don’t know what they’re doing is sowing into false teaching. I pray God still blesses them, man, even just in their lives.

Brent Smith:

Yeah. And again, that’s where it does come down to the heart and your motive for it. And we pray and trust some are doing so with the right motives and purposes. But my goodness, I don’t want to be anywhere around these guys on that day of judgment when they stand before God for what they’ve done and how they’ve led people astray. My goodness. Yeah, that’s going to be a scary time for them.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s going to be a very scary time for them. I heard one of them say, and again, it’s always about we’re the focus and we’re inviting God into respond to our… We’re initiating. And I remember hearing one guy when I was looking through this actually, and he said, “People get mad at God when things go bad as if God is in control of everything.” And then he says, “that’s not even in the Bible.” This is a huge preacher. This is a huge preacher who said this. And then another video clip of him saying, “and then we can talk about the sovereignty of God, which is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard.” And I’m like, people don’t believe that he’s in control. People think that he’s always responding and we’re in mission because we’re in control. That’s the foundation of all these things. And it’s just like-

Brent Smith:

They make themselves the God. That’s the crazy thing, that we’re the ones that call the shots. We’re the ones that are going to control what we get, how things are going to play out in our lives. And it’s ludicrous.

Andrew Marcus:

So what does it look like then for our listeners and viewers who are watchers? Okay. We don’t edit, folks.

Brent Smith:

No. Those are the ones playing with the Holy Spirit Board thing.

Andrew Marcus:

The watchers.

Brent Smith:

The watchers.

Andrew Marcus:

 Yeah, they’re the watchers-

Brent Smith:

Oh, they’re the ones coming out of the Holy Spirit board maybe. Okay. We’ll leave that alone.

Andrew Marcus:

Dear Lord. Okay. But what does biblical generosity look like? And we walked through it yesterday in church and I’d love you to almost kind of just retell us today who we’re not there. But what does it look like to have a biblical generosity when we read through second Corinthians, nine?

Brent Smith:

I think as we look through this, the whole context of this is in second Corinthians eight and nine is Paul’s addressing the church in Corinth about this offering that those around Corinth and those in Macedonia wanted to bring an offering to help the church in Jerusalem who was going through persecution. They were going through famine. There were trials that was hitting this early church and they want to bless other believers and help them. And so they’re giving to the work of the Lord in order to provide for these people. And so that’s the context in all this. And Paul’s encouraging to continue on and to do so very generously.

And again, it becomes that act of worship. It’s giving not to get. It’s giving because you got and recognizing what we have in the Lord and through the Lord and our motivation in giving being simply that, God, everything I have is yours. You’ve entrusted me with this. And I can think of no better way to be good steward of this money than to give back to you what is already yours to use for your purposes. It’s not to be used for my purposes, it’s to be used for your purposes. And so we give in faith in the right way saying, Lord, I want this money to be used for your purpose to be continuing to go out, for ministries to continue to be able to carry out the gospel message to a world that so desperately needs to hear that.

And so just having that generosity and knowing. I mean, there are many passages. We looked at some in Proverbs that talk about how when you give, there will be blessing. But again, we’re not looking to assume now that when we give, it’s going to be returned back to us in a financial way. And there’s going to be blessing. We just trust and know that God’s going to take care of us. Now, why does God ask us to give? We can look at that and go, what’s the point of that? God’s not broke. God’s not looking for a handout. God’s not in need. But what giving does is it becomes a very big indicator of where a heart is at just like Jesus says in Matthew chapter six, right. Verses 19 and 20, “Where your treasures, there your heart will be also.”

And so when we have a loose grip on our finances and say, Lord, I want to be generous. Yeah. We’re saying, I’m trusting you, God. I’m trusting you that my dependency is not on my paycheck, not on my bank account. My dependency is ultimately on you. And I know that as I give, you’re going to take care of me in whatever way that looks like, whatever blessing. Whether that’s, again, spiritual, material, whatever it is. And we know that others are going to be blessed through it.

And here’s the model that we have, is that God is a giving God. And the beauty of second Corinthians nine is because Paul ends on this note. After he’s encouraging the church about giving and following through, he says, “Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift.” I mean, Paul can’t even put into words how awesome the gift that we’ve received from God, which is ultimately, I believe, speaking of Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus has saved us, forgiven us of our sin. He’s brought us into the family of God with a hope of eternal life. I mean, we’re blessed already and God’s a giving God. For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son. So God’s already shown us the model of how he’s a generous giving God. And we get to just, again, come alongside God and partner with the work that God’s doing for His glory, not for our benefit. Even though we know as we give. Then you’re going to be blessed.

Andrew Marcus:

You’re going to be blessed. Yeah. I can’t count how many stories in my own life personally when Michelle and I decided, okay, we’re going to sacrificially give here or do this or that. And again, we didn’t do it for the motive of I can’t wait to get back whatever. But God always takes care of us.

Brent Smith:

He always takes care of us.

Andrew Marcus:

Even if it doesn’t make sense. I know my dad always tells me when people complain about giving 10%. I can’t even live off a hundred percent. How are you expecting me to live off 90 when I could barely survive on a hundred. But God’s math is not a different calculator. It doesn’t add up.

Brent Smith:

It’s true. And just in ways, I remember when I was serving in a church as a youth pastor and I was in a full-time position there and I had resigned from the church to go and help with a new church plant. And it was new church plant, so it was a no paying position. I was like, I’m coming in. I was invited to come and be the associate pastor there. And so I left a paid position to go to a no paid position. And lot of people were looking at me going, this is not wise. What are you doing? This is not smart. We are just expecting our firstborn son. And so it was a big period in our lives of change. And here I am giving up a paycheck in a sense. And the Lord really kind of prompted my heart and just said, “What are you trusting in? Is it your paycheck or is it me?” And that hit me. I was like, “Lord, I’ve been trusting in my paycheck.” Okay. I’m going to take a step of faith and trust you. And so we moved to a new area. We’re starting with this new church plant. And I remember one day, not too far into it, I’m sitting there and I’m getting dressed and I’m going, man, I’m out of socks. I need some socks, man. Lord, I need socks. And then that day I got a letter in the mail saying there was a package waiting for us at the train station. I’m like, at the train station? Is there even train stations around?

Andrew Marcus:

It’s a scam buddy. Run. It’s a scam.

Brent Smith:

And so I’m like, okay. So my wife and I went. We drove downtown – and then there’s this package waiting for us. And I opened up the package. First thing I pull this package a pack of socks that same day. I’m just like, God, you’re good. And I mean, that’s small. That’s simple. But it reminded me God knows my needs. God knows how to provide for what we need.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, I was just talking to a guy at a wedding and he was talking about how, man, I really need a lawnmower. I need a lawnmower so bad. He just didn’t have a lawnmower, whatever. His lawnmower was old. And then someone calls him and says, “Hey, I was wondering if you need a lawnmower.” And it’s just like-

Brent Smith:

Boom. God knows.

Andrew Marcus:

God just provides what we need. He knows what we need when we need it. And he provides my wife and I, she was debating like, oh, I don’t know if I should do this new position. She transitioned out of her work into a new position. But the main thing she was worried about was I’m not going to have benefits in EI. And so if I want to have another baby and we can’t take mat leave, all that kind of stuff with this, they don’t offer that, whatever, with this new job. And we wrestled, wrestled. Do we just stay on the old jobs so that we can have mat leave again if we have another child, God willing? And we just kind of prayed. We prayed. We said, okay, are we depending on the government to provide our needs? Do you actually feel called to this new job? Yes, I feel very called.

Okay. So do we trust that God will provide what we need? Absolutely. She quit. I believe God’s going to provide. So she quits, goes to her new job. First day in orientation, we changed things around. You’re now actually employees. So you’re going to get EI and benefits and mat leave. And so it’s kind of like, whoa, God… He just wanted that obedience of, do you trust me? Do you trust me? I got this. Everything is mine.

Brent Smith:

That’s it.

Andrew Marcus:

And he’s in control, not us in control. And so God is just really good.

Brent Smith:

He is good. And even if there’s times where you are going through a period of being in need and you’re going, Lord, where are you? I thought you’d provide, there are lessons that He teaches us through those times too. If I never got a package of socks, God’s going to be doing a work in a different way of teaching me, strengthening me in other ways. And so we don’t have to question or doubt God when we find ourselves in need because he wants us to simply know His all sufficiency for us that he is the one that we ultimately need. And He’s enough, right?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. Yeah, that’s so good. And we learn so much in those times. And so that’s so good. So for the young adult who’s listening and they’re just like, okay, inflation’s crazy, man. I’m struggling to survive. What does it look like for young people to live generously?

Brent Smith:

Cool. Well, I love what the Bible says. And again, in first Corinthians nine, seven, “not to give grudgingly or of necessity. For God loves a cheerful giver.” Now, anytime that I see the Bible say, here’s what God loves, that’s what I want to be doing. I’m like, oh, circle that. Highlight that. God loves this? That’s what I do. So God loves a cheerful giver and I love that word in the Greek. Cheerful is hilaron where we get our word hilarious. And so God wants giving to be an exciting joy-filled act for us.

And so God’s not sitting there with a person that’s racked with debt or just with inflation, everything’s crazy going, “Hey, you know what? I haven’t seen it giving for the last couple weeks. Where is that?”

Andrew Marcus:

You owe me.

Brent Smith:

Yeah, you owe me, right?

Andrew Marcus:

Where’s my cut?

Brent Smith:

God wants us to be a cheerful giver. But I would say for people that are in a difficult place, again, I think it’s setting God as a priority in our life in every way and saying, “God, you’ve given me this. And even though I’m in a situation that’s financially strained, I want to honor you first and foremost, I want to give to you.” And the great thing is that we’re not bound to a specific amount. We’re not under the law any longer. Tithing was a principle in the Old Testament and tithe simply meant a tent. And that was kind of a starting point. Many people see that the tithes were kind of like a tax system to provide for those serving in the temple with the Levites and such.

And in fact, actually all the gifts went beyond a 10%. It went it up towards close to 25% that they were kind of under the law to give. But we’re no longer under the law. But we see all through the New Testament how we’re to be givers. And the model again is Jesus. And so God loves a cheerful giver. This is something God loves and it’s an opportunity for us to say, “God, this is hard for me but I’m going to trust you. I’m going to do this as an act of worship.” Because worship is costly at times. And I think there’s a sweetness when we come with that sacrifice before God. And it’s trusting God.

But you’re not bound to say it has to be this much. You’ve got to do this. God wants you to learn the principles of doing so with a cheerful, joy filled heart because God is good, because God has already blessed us and given us much. We’re indebted to him and we just want to give back in this act of worship to him. So I would encourage people that can easily justify not giving to begin to practice the blessing of giving and do so with joy.

Don’t do it if you’re just cursing under your breath having to give. I hate that InDoubt show that told me I needed to give. Man, I can’t believe I have to do this. But okay, God, fine, I’ll do it. Don’t do it under those circumstances and with that attitude, but pray about that and begin to ask for a heart that is excited to give. And again, it’s never easy. It’s never easy to give away something, especially when it’s your money. It’s not easy for me to do so. But I love the fact that I get to give to the Lord who’s blessed me immensely in many ways. And the Lord can do nothing again for me for the rest of my days, but he is already done enough for me to say my life is yours. Everything I have is yours God. Use it as you need.

And so learn the blessing of giving and doing so as an act of worship to God and to give cheerfully because God loves it.

Andrew Marcus:

Cheerfully is huge. You shared a story at church about the cheerful giver of the $5 bill and quarter.

Brent Smith:

Oh yeah, yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh gosh. Can you share that story? That’s a pretty funny one.

Brent Smith:

So a mom took her daughter to church.

Andrew Marcus:

This is not cheerful giving. This is an example of not cheerful giving.

Brent Smith:

So a mom took her daughter to church and she gave her daughter a dollar bill and a quarter and said, honey, you can put whatever you want in the offering plate. And so the offering was passed around and daughter put something in the plate. And on their drive home the mother said, “Hey honey, what did you end up putting in the offering plate?” And the daughter said, “Well, you know what? I was going to put the dollar in the offering plate but the man behind the pulpit was talking about how we need to be cheerful giver and I thought I’d be a lot more cheerful if I put the quarter in.” So yeah, that’s the way we roll oftentimes, isn’t it? But that’s not a cheerful giver.

Andrew Marcus:

And you also gave an analogy, which I think is super important, of the story of basically giving the scraps to the church. Tell that story because that’s not also a cheerful giver. We’re just giving you examples, folks, of what a non cheerful giver looks like.

Brent Smith:

And this is what our giving oftentimes does. So there was a story, this was on the radio one time where around Thanksgiving, many, many years ago. The Butterball Company set up a hotline for people to call in and get help with how to prepare their turkeys and things like that. So a lady calls into this hotline and says, I’ve got a Turkey that’s been sitting in my freezer for 23 years. Is this thing safe to eat? And the representative from the Butterball company says, “Well, you know what? If the freezer’s been kept at a below zero temperature for those 23 years, it’s probably safe to eat. But by that time it’s probably lost all of its flavor. I wouldn’t recommend eating it.” And the woman says, “Yeah, that’s what I thought. I’ll give the Turkey to the church instead.” And that’s kind of what we end up doing a lot of times. It’s like, “You know what? I don’t really need this thing any longer. It’s pretty junky. I don’t want it in my house. Let me give that to the youth room. This old couch has got dog pee stains on it. I’m going to give that to youth ministry.

Andrew Marcus:

And I’m going to feel so good about it.

Brent Smith:

What blessing that is. What a giver I am. But I’m going to buy a nice new couch for myself. Wouldn’t it be nice to buy a new couch and give it to the youth ministry or give it to the InDoubt Show, whatever it is. But to give in that way where it just like, Lord, I’m not giving you my leftovers. I’m giving you my best here. And so that’s [inaudible 00:59:34.

Andrew Marcus:

My wife was just reading about first fruits, the importance of first fruits.

Brent Smith:

Isn’t that good.

Andrew Marcus:

Not to give the scraps. The first fruits it’s sacred. And she always tells me, “oh that fruit, it’s not even ours. It shouldn’t even be in our home.”

Brent Smith:

Yeah. Don’t touch it.

Andrew Marcus:

That is sacred first fruits. So we don’t give the scraps, we give the very best, the very beginning.

Brent Smith:

And when you give the first fruits, you’re taking a step of faith because you’re saying, I’ve got something right now and we need this. But God, I’m going to give it to you first and I’m trusting you that the rest of the crops are going to come in. Yeah. I mean that was a big deal. And so they gave the first fruits but in trust that God was going to provide then the rest of it. And that’s what we do. We can hold on so tightly to things instead of holding loosely to and saying, “God, it’s already yours. I want to give you the first fruits. I want to give you the best. I’m going to trust you for the rest.

And many people who are faithful givers have seen time and time again God just come through and provide.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. It’s so good, man. That’s so good. Well, this is a good time. This is a good time. Usually we record some intros and outros, but I feel like this is just different. We’re all here together. This is really good.

Chris Bredeson:

This is good. Yeah, this is awesome.

Andrew Marcus:

Lots of great takeaways.

Brent Smith:

It’s been great, guys. Love it.

Andrew Marcus:

This is so fun. And we really appreciate you being in third chair.

Brent Smith:

The third wheel right here.

Andrew Marcus:

The third wheel.

Brent Smith:

I love being the third wheel. Anybody, that means a chaperone on their dates, third wheel right here. I’ll take it.

Andrew Marcus:

Riverside.com. No, just kidding. I’m just kidding. Don’t hire him. That would be a terrible movie. But I guess like the squeaky wheel, I guess it’s the squeaky third wheels. Maybe he could be the squeaky. Maybe we update his theme music. It’s just a squeaky wheel.

Brent Smith:

Thanks, man.

Andrew Marcus:

Well, we appreciate you, bro. And lots to takeaway. But get a biblical perspective of generosity. It’s not to receive anything back, it’s to say thank you, Lord, for everything that you’ve given. You don’t give to get. You give because you already got.

Brent Smith:

Amen.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good. And we’re grateful for you to tune in. We’re grateful for you to tune in. We’re grateful for you to tune in. Thank you for our guy in the back here just making sure we didn’t catch fire with that camera. Again, fiscal year end. Perfect opportunity to remind you one more time of the-

Brent Smith:

Opportunity to give generously.

Andrew Marcus:

And cheerfully. Hilariously actually. But we love you guys. Happy Monday. Have a great week and we’ll see you next Monday.

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