Ep. 25: NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIAN YOGA w/ Dr. Chris Berg

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, this is Andrew Marcus from THE INDOUBT SHOW. Thank you so much for tuning in. We have a fantastic episode today. We have Dr. Chris Berg. He spoke with us a few weeks back on the Enneagram. Today we continue a series on spiritual things and we’re talking about yoga. Is Christian yoga an actual thing? So we’re going to dive in. We hope it’s insightful, it’s practical, it’s resourceful. God bless.

All right, we have Dr. Chris Berg again with us. Thank you so much for taking time to join us again. We were so blessed by our last conversation on Enneagram. Like I told you right before we started, it’s like, if I didn’t lose all my friends then, I feel like after this episode, I will lose all my friends. So let’s see what happens. But today, we’re talking about yoga. I know a lot of people do yoga, a lot of Christians engage with yoga and think that they can redeem it or think about the Lord when they do it, or it’s just stretches, what’s the big deal?

So we’re going to dive into some stuff and maybe think and realize it is a big deal actually. Chris, tell us a little bit about… before we dive in… I mean, I know you introduced yourself in our other episode, but in case someone didn’t watch that one and they’re just diving in, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are, what you’re doing.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure. My name’s Dr. Chris Berg. I reside in Durham, North Carolina in the United States. Currently, I serve as a pastor of our church, Spirit of Truth Church. I also work at Ecclesia University teaching undergraduate and master courses in Christian Apologetics, theology, New Testament, Old Testament studies, things of that nature. I also work in missions. We do missions outreach to students here in North Carolina in the public school system. And I’ve recently partnered with a ministry of a friend of mine as well to begin leading tours at public museums on creation.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

We actually use their exhibits to teach creation. That’s something new that we’ve been doing for the last couple of months. It’s been a lot of fun.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, that’s so great, man. That’s amazing. Good for you. You’ve written a book and released the book. You didn’t mention that. I mean, you’re doing a lot.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. The book really is what led to some of this type of stuff, my interest in the New Age movements, inception into Christianity, specifically using the vehicles of yoga, Christian yoga, and the Christian Enneagram to do so. Yeah, that’s been a fun little project as well.

Andrew Marcus:

Man. So when you say Christian Enneagram, Christian yoga, do you use that… is that an oxymoron? Do they actually go together or is that…

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. What this means when we talk about Christian yoga or Christian Enneagram or putting Christian in terms of something like that, it’s an attempt at syncretism. So it’s an attempt to blend Christianity with another ritual or practice or a form of spiritual discipline. So that’s more what it is. In some sense, it’s an oxymoron because the philosophies and underlying worldviews are diametrically opposed. But it’s an attempt at syncretism.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, totally.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Or blending.

Andrew Marcus:

Fascinating. So with yoga, I think it’ll help us understand if we can just go back and maybe get a little bit of the history. Maybe some people have no idea about the history of yoga. I know you’re quite resourced in that. So maybe tell us a little bit about the history of yoga, where it came from, and what it was used for and all that.

Dr. Chris Berg:

There’s a lot of misinformation about the history of yoga and about yoga in general. And that’s being propagated primarily to keep people confused into thinking that it’s something that’s just a stretch technique or pattern. But the actual origin of yoga is as a means of salvation in Hinduism. It’s thousands of years old. And Yoga is a method of worship of the Hindu gods, and it’s specifically a path of salvation. This is built right into the definition of yoga, which is essentially achieving oneness with God.

Yoga’s built off of eight arms or limbs. We won’t go through all of them right now, but the eighth one, the one that you’re trying to achieve through doing the entire process of yoga, is enlightenment. So built into yoga’s very core philosophy and what it is is an attempt at spiritual awareness and enlightenment and oneness with God. So that’s yoga’s path of salvation, that’s Hinduism’s path of salvation. So people throughout history have engaged in these posture and breathing techniques, and actually some other things too, to achieve total control over their body, their breath, and their mind.

This actually would lead to a nullification of the senses. In fact, yoga is also called the way of dying. You’re essentially training your body to be suspended at the cusp of death. It’s what it was designed to do. This would allow you to then engage in things like transcendental meditation, having out-of-body experiences, and again, achieving enlightenment through self-realization or heightened levels of consciousness where you began to realize you were one with the divinity.

Over time, yoga’s developed into many different paths. But it was actually brought over to the United States by Carl Jung and some others as well. He wasn’t the only one, but he was one of the main proponents. He brought it over, we’ll talk more about him later. But from there, it spread into three kind of American styles. You got the Hollywood style. That’s the physical, do it for the stretch, do it for the exercise. The Harvard style, do it because of the yogic philosophy. That’s the Hinduistic philosophy.

Then the cultic versions, which are the spiritual ones. Believe it or not, the larger Christian organizations are the cultic ones. They’re the ones that focus on yoga for spirituality. We’ll get into that probably in a moment.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow. Interesting. Okay, so-

Dr. Chris Berg:

That’s a brief history.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, brief history. So Carl… You said Carl Yung?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yung, yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

He’s the one who brought it into the United States of America. When was that? Do you know?

Dr. Chris Berg:

I’d have to check that up to exactly see at what point in his life he was engaging in that.

Andrew Marcus:

I just wonder how long it’s been around for here.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah, it’s not been around too long in terms of this. The problem is you have him and others doing it, so trying to pin down a specific date… But I’ll say this, yoga really started to take hold in the ’70s because once it was linked with the New Age movement, you get a massive essentially propagation of yoga throughout the United States. So again, during that whole sense of spiritualism, ’60s and ’70s, that’s when it’s going to make the major inroads.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow! And it started with New Age and it wasn’t like a Christian thing in the ’60s and ’70s obviously.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. The Christian yoga is all relatively recent. Christian yoga is comparatively very recent.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay. Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. Some of the main people that attempt to do it, we’ll talk about in here, these are all people still doing it today. So this is all very, very recent, last 20, 30 years, 40 years.

Andrew Marcus:

Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about how it seeped into our Christian worldview and been accepted.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure. Well, Christianity’s always had a bad rap for denying the body. People would often accuse Christianity of that saying, “Well, you don’t care about the body. You don’t care about physical health.” So there were Christians who were engaging in yoga. They recognized that Hinduistic yoga was not good because you’re literally doing these postures modeled after the gods. They said, “Well, can we modify it? Can we syncretize it with Christianity? Can we remove the Hinduism from the yoga?”

What they did do, what they did accomplish, and my research shows this, is they did drop, for the most part, a lot of the Hindu God names and they tried to associate it with different things and more Christian sounding things. But the problem is… And this is from the Christian Yoga Association by the way. They define yoga, Christian yoga, as “A physical practice of connecting profoundly and intimately to our creator and living God, Jesus Christ, with our entire being physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.”

So Christian yoga, according to the Christian Yoga Association, is not just a stretch technique. It is a way to connect with God, and not just on a spiritual level, but on a physical, mental, and emotional level. Now, let’s break that down for a moment. Do we argue that Peter, Paul, and James lacked in their relationship with God because they did not have Christian yoga? Because this seems to be saying that the apostles and the people in the early church didn’t have the full picture, that their relationship with God could have been much deeper than it was because they were not connected truly and intimately because they did not have Christian yoga.

Additionally, Christian Yoga states that union is “the uniting of our breath, body and spirit in Christ truly becoming one with him in the sacred space of his presence.” This is all Christian Yoga Association. But what’s the problem there? Truly becoming one with him? Well, if the blood of Christ did not bring us into union with Christ, where we are baptized with him, we died with him, and are raised with him, then we have a serious problem because we aren’t actually fully saved under this definition until we do Christian yoga. So right here, right off the bat, we are talking about something fundamentally different than a bunch of stretches. We’re talking about an esoteric way of connecting with God.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so fascinating. It’s almost so bizarre to hear. Is it really that big of a deal? I’m sure a lot of young people are listening thinking, “Okay, I’m literally just doing stretches.”

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. And this is where we get into the design of yoga. We have to remember that yoga done properly as a practice includes the stretching and the breath exercises and everything with it. If you remove the breath exercises, you’re not really doing yoga as you should do it. You’re just taking a piece of it. Then no one’s going to deny, for example, that the stretches may have physical effect. You’re moving your body, you’re stretching things, and that’s going to have a positive physical effect. The problem is, that’s not what yoga was designed for.

And all of the major associations and the major practitioners recognize this. It was not designed for physical benefit. That’s a byproduct. It was designed for spiritual benefit. Now I’m going to give you some other things here. Even in Christian yoga, yoga is here to manipulate physical nature, your body, your breath, to foster spiritual experiences. Holy Yoga instructor Brooke Boon states that we are able to get in touch with the Holy Spirit by following the outpourings of our hearts and using the postures of Hatha yoga together with spiritual intent of Bhakti yoga to experience the spiritual growth.

Again, getting in touch with the Holy Spirit through yoga as though we have to do something to reach God. They also believe that union with God is esoteric. Brooke Boon, again, Holy Yoga creator, states that her version of Bhakti yoga leads to a state of mind that can be described as being immersed in the Holy Spirit, and that through these ancient disciplines, Christians can find communion with Christ or Christ awareness. Again, this is her understanding of spiritual growth. This is Christian yoga’s spiritual growth. It’s esoteric. It’s being aware of Christ, submerging yourself in the Holy Spirit.

In fact, the word used, “immersed”, kind of like baptized. Baptized means to be immersed. It’s almost as though Christian yoga is a way of baptism. I mean, we are getting very off Christian theology. Even though they attempt to put a Christian veneer over this, we are getting deep into Hindu theology and worldview. Breath control is energy control. Susan Bordenkircher, Outstretched in Worship, states, “God’s presence is in your breath.” This is a redefinition of God. This is one of the main ones by the way. Holy Yoga and Outstretched in Worship are the two of the big ones.

God’s presence is in your breath. Your breath is what connects your mind to your body. She argues that the breath is “also your gateway to actually feeling the Holy Spirit moving and working within you. God’s presence is only as far away as your breath.” We’ve just made the Holy Spirit out to be our physical breath and we’ve confined his presence to our physical breath. So you’ve got a redefinition of God in here as well. The problem is, people don’t see this. They hear the words, they might do… Oh, I’m just doing the movements.

We’ll get to that in a moment too because there’s a lot of studies that have come out now, and I’ll share some with you, that show that the longer you engage in yoga, the less likely you are to be a Christian, the more likely you are to become a Buddhist or just spiritual. So even for people who are at the cusp here who are thinking, “Well, I’m just doing it for physical benefit,” I’ll show you the results from the surveys.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

It’s not pretty.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah, we’ll get into that in a bit. Finally, the relationship and connection with God and Christian yoga is the product of human effort. You have to get good at Christian yoga to be connected with God. So these are the problems with it. It’s not just stretching. And people say that, and we’ll get into why they do that, because maybe they join for that reason. That’s common. It’s common to join for the stretching, but you stay for the spiritual benefits. That’s also just as common.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. And it’s the same thing. Would you find in your circles when you dissect this… I remember we talked about Enneagram. You said 50% of people are like, “Wow! I can’t believe it.” And they’re shocked and they readjust life. Then the other 50 get mad at you and say you’re crazy. Would you say it’s the same thing with yoga? Because I feel like a lot of people don’t know this stuff.

Dr. Chris Berg:

They don’t. In fact, actually, even some teachers don’t know this stuff. I’ll share a quote on that too later. But yeah, the problem is that when… Concerning health, people’s health is very important to them. When you tell somebody that, “What you’re doing that’s making you healthy is actually wrong, sinful actually,” they can get very angry. And they can say that, “You’re attacking me and my ability to stay healthy. How dare you tell me how I can relate to God?” Well, I’m not the one saying how you can relate to God. God himself is.

For example, when we go into scripture, we find that there are good things people can do, like sacrifice to the Old Testament, that if offered the wrong way become unauthorized and the people are judged for offering unauthorized sacrifice. This happens with Moses and the priests when they get judged with the fire. It happens with Saul when he also offers an unauthorized sacrifice. It’s not the sacrifice itself was bad itself, it’s that he wasn’t supposed to be the one to offer it.

So you have the situation where we don’t get to choose how we approach God. We don’t get to choose how we relate to God. He dictates that. And he has said, “The way you will relate to me is through the New Covenant. And the New Covenant is through the blood Jesus Christ shed on the cross.

Andrew Marcus:

Amen. No other way.

Dr. Chris Berg:

No other way. If you’d like, I could share five quick clips about the theology of Christian yoga-

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, please.

Dr. Chris Berg:

… so you get a feel for it.

Andrew Marcus:

Please, please. Yeah.

Dr. Chris Berg:

So five main theological tenets of Christian yoga. So Christian yoga creates a new form of divine revelation. In other words, in some sense, it’s a new version of scripture that’s physical, emotional, esoteric, agnostic. In other words, you are going to learn things about God through Christian yoga and your relationship with him that you can only learn through Christian yoga. Even the disciples didn’t even have access to this. The early church didn’t even have access to this. Christian yoga’s going to turn the Holy Spirit into breath and impersonalize him. And at times, even manipulate.

I’ve even seen some yoga practitioners say, “Breathe in the Holy Spirit. Exhale the Holy Spirit,” as though they’re controlling it or him. Christian yoga also places the purpose of humanity and mankind on yoga itself. You have to achieve union with God through Christian yoga. That’s the best way to do it. It also replaces penal substitutionary atonement or Jesus’ death on the cross with a workspace salvation. Your relationship with God is based on your ability and skill at Christian yoga. Finally, it replaces a spirituality that is moral and holy with a spirituality that is health-based and esoteric. So on every level, we’re reforming Christian theology and making it Hinduistic.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow! And I honestly don’t think a lot of people realize that at all.

Dr. Chris Berg:

They don’t.

Andrew Marcus:

Not at all.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah, they don’t.

Andrew Marcus:

So talk a little bit about the statistics you mentioned of, okay, a Christian dives into yoga, they’re just doing it for the stretches. What are the stats of what happens to people who ignore the roots of yoga?

Dr. Chris Berg:

To give some background to that by the way, the largest missionary organization in the world is not actually a Christian mission organization. It’s actually India’s Vishva Hindu Parishad. It’s Hinduism. They came out with this quote, “Our mission in the West has been crowned with fantastic success. Hinduism is becoming the dominant world religion and the end of Christianity has come near.”

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

And how do they do missions? Yoga. Yoga is the missionary-

Andrew Marcus:

Do they say that?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yes. Yeah. Yoga’s the missionary arm of Hinduism.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

That’s what it is.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, boy!

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. So when we engage in yoga, we’re actively helping their missionary efforts, even Christian yoga, because they’re… Remember, Hinduism’s fine with syncretism. So if we get syncretistic with our Christianity and yoga, they love that. They’d promote Christian yoga everywhere because it’s got the Hinduistic philosophy attached to it. They said they believe the end of Christianity is here because they won. I would agree to some extent that American Christianity’s become fundamentally Hinduistic in it’s understanding. It’s the new age. The basis of new age is Hinduism. So many Christians are engaged in this now. On some level, it’s kind of mind-blowing.

Again, people need to understand, even when they engage in Christian yoga, they’re being actively evangelized into either Hinduism directly or into a Hinduistic worldview. Now, in 2016, Crystal Park conducted a national survey of yoga practitioners, of 360 yoga students and 156 yoga teachers. Of the students, 61.3% reported that they changed their primary reason for engaging in yoga. Of those that changed, the most common new reason was spirituality. 85.5% of teachers said they shifted their primary purpose. And again, spirituality was the most common reason. Okay? Now, it gets even better.

Andrew Marcus:

Or even worse. You mean worse.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Or even worse. Yeah. Even worse. In Australia, Penman conducted a survey that found that yoga practice “may correlate with a possible reduction in Christian orientation with years of practice up to seven years, and a corresponding potential increase in non-religious spirituality and Buddhism over the same period.” Heinrich and Schrems and Veshtig argue that most people initially join yoga as pragmatists who only engage for physical benefits. But as those benefits come about, they slowly migrate toward the true goal of yoga as new spirituality.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow!

Dr. Chris Berg:

So these are journal peer-reviewed articles. And my question is, are we actually okay with this? Are we actually okay and can we really say much like with the Enneagram that there’s a 0% chance that anyone we introduce to yoga will not have a tendency away from Christ? The data says no. The data says that yoga of any kind when we introduce people to it, is going to come with syncretism, it’s going to come with yogic philosophy, and it’s going to have a detrimental spiritual effect on a person. So it might be okay for you and I wouldn’t deny someone saying, “Oh, well yeah, that’s my experience.”

Well, that’s fine. That’s your experience. But we got to take a look at the whole thing. When we take a look at the whole thing, you’re talking about eternal life. You’re talking about salvation here. And we do not play with salvation. We don’t play with that. The bottom line is, we don’t want to be a stumbling block. And Christian yoga and things of that nature are absolutely stumbling blocks as the data shows.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s just so shocking to me. I have more questions.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure.

Andrew Marcus:

Because even my wife and I were talking about this, we were just like, “Yeah, but what about…” Okay, so for example, there’s so many stretches that… I just told you about my pinched nerve and I’m going through physio and chiro, whatever. I don’t know if some of these stretches that the physiotherapist is giving me is actually connected to some yoga stretch with some random name.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure.

Andrew Marcus:

Or you watch football players are getting ready for a game and they’re all kind of doing certain stretches. I don’t know if that stretch is a yoga stretch. I don’t know if he knows that stretch is a yoga stretch. So what happens when we’re doing physio trying to heal and we are absolutely oblivious to the hundreds and hundreds of… or maybe thousands, I don’t know, of poses with names-

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure.

Andrew Marcus:

… that actually have these weird ritualistic foundations?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Well, the beauty is that Hinduism and yoga don’t own the body, nor do they own movements, nor do they own poses and positions.

Andrew Marcus:

Right. Okay.

Dr. Chris Berg:

So that’s the nice thing.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay. I wanted to just get that out because I’m like, “I don’t know.” I’m doing physio right now, I’m going later today, and I’m like, “I don’t know if they’re going to make me do some weird stuff.”

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. Well, we can always ask and say, “I would rather not do anything associated with yoga.” You can always ask that and just say that outright. And they will know if they do use those things, and then no, not include them. So you can always say that. But the thing is, yoga is a system. It is a system designed with a purpose. It’s not just one posture. It’s all of the postures, all of the breaths, all of the transitions, all of the poses in the right timing done properly. That’s yoga. So we don’t have to worry about a stretch that we… Oh my goodness! A copy yoga pose. Yeah. Irrelevant. Yeah. They don’t own the body.

Andrew Marcus:

Because I was thinking about this. I was starting to get freaked out. I’m like, “Oh, crap! I’ve probably done a bunch of yoga poses and now I’m screwed.” so I’m grateful that is out there. I-

Dr. Chris Berg:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, just because somebody did yoga once doesn’t mean they’re demon possessed or they’re going to spiral out into some crazy non-Christian thing. It’s over time the teachings and the philosophy and everything like that that begins to get ingrained. It’s discipleship is what it is. Like I said, it’s a missionary arm, it’s discipleship. And Christian yoga even affirms that what they do is a form of discipleship. It’s a form of growing closer to God. So it is discipleship.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay. So just the random stretch at a physiotherapist or a football team warming up for the game?

Dr. Chris Berg:

That’s fine.

Andrew Marcus:

They’re not aware they’re doing the… whatever pose, they’re just literally getting ready for the game?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah, probably fine. Unless you’re all like, “Let’s go into tree pose now and pretend that we’re at the earth.” I mean, not if they say that. I’d probably say, well, “Yeah, okay-

Andrew Marcus:

I’ll pass. Thank you very much. You’re a bunch of tree trunks. Okay. So that makes a lot more sense. But there are obviously a lot of Christians who are actually practicing yoga to a tee with all those things you mentioned.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yes, yes. That’s the dominant way to do it.

Andrew Marcus:

And a lot of Christians are doing that?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yes, that is correct.

Andrew Marcus:

And the stats are out saying when they do that a lot of them will drift off into a non-religious spirituality?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Yeah. And they change their reasons. So somebody says, “Well, I’m just doing it for the physicality.” Yeah, but give it a couple of years and you might actually shift on that. That’s what the data seems to show.

Andrew Marcus:

Interesting. I always think about it this way, and I don’t know if you agree with this, but I know you mentioned you do a yoga once and so long you’re going to be demonized or whatever. But I do feel like sometimes Satan doesn’t wait for a proper invitation, even if you naively open the door. He’s not a gentleman like Jesus knocking at the door waiting for a proper invitation. If we walk into something, we play the Ouija board once as a joke with our friends, or we’re doing yoga once or whatever, I do think there are a lot of risks.

Dr. Chris Berg:

So I have a whole lot on that-

Andrew Marcus:

Okay, please.

Dr. Chris Berg:

… because that’s true. So when I made the comment earlier, I just meant from the sake of somebody who’s like, “Oh my goodness! I attended a yoga class six years ago, is my-

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, yeah. Totally.

Dr. Chris Berg:

That kind of thing, right?

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah.

Dr. Chris Berg:

However, yoga is like Russian roulette. You pull the trigger, you live, you get high from doing it in a sense of euphoric sense of exercise, and it feels great. But the bullet comes due at some point in some way. For some people, that first pull of the trigger is it. So yes, even doing it once can cause serious issues. Yeah. My comment earlier was just to say, people may, “Oh my goodness! What do I do?” That kind of thing.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. Or specifically even like the soccer player stretching. It’s like you’re not going to be calling onto weird spirits. But if you do like this Russian roulette, that’s a good way of thinking about it. It could be the first time. So I want to ask a couple questions and I want you to answer. So say a young adult is listening or watching and they’re saying, “You know what? I do yoga. I love it. I do the breaths, I do all the things. But I’m honestly thinking about the Lord every time and I’m meditating on scripture all the time.” How would you respond?

Dr. Chris Berg:

We have to remember, and it’s very, very important, that the breaths and the postures have nothing to do with your thoughts. The breaths and the postures are designed to create spiritual experiences, open the body up to demonic activity, and create a state of enlightenment or transcendental meditation. Just because you’re thinking about God or thinking about Christianity does not mean that yoga’s not doing those things to you. Just like opioids or medicine or all these other things, I don’t want to get addicted, so I’m thinking now, “I’m not going to get addicted.” But my body and my brain don’t care once those drugs come in. They’re going to do what they’re going to do. Same thing with yoga.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow! Okay. So the last question to say, okay, there’s a young person watching, they’re deeply engaged. And I think I know your answer already. It’s probably going to be short and sweet. But what do you tell them? Stop it?

Dr. Chris Berg:

Sure. Yeah. So to the question, should we do Christian yoga? My answer would be absolutely not, and for these four reasons. First, we see people walk away from Jesus as a result of being involved in it. Second, there’s potential injury. Third, there’s a possibility of struggling because it becomes a work-based religion. Fourth, because of demonic incursions. Why put yourself in a situation where you could be taken out like that when there are great alternatives that you could do for Christian exercise. There’s just no need for it anymore.

Andrew Marcus:

Yep. Amen. Amen. Good word. Dr. Chris, I appreciate you so much. It is always a treat. I wish I could interview you every week, every week.

Dr. Chris Berg:

Oh, thanks. You guys too. It’s always good to spend time with you.

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out THE INDOUBT SHOW on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcast. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out indoubt.ca. We have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.

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