Ep. 272: The Loneliness Epidemic

*Below is an edited transcription of the audio conversation.

Welcome to the Indoubt Podcast where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s word. For more info on Indoubt, visit Indoubt.ca or Indoubt.com.

Daniel Markin:

Hey. This is Daniel Markin with Indoubt, and today I have Dr. Mark Mayfield on the program with us today. Amazing discussion that we have around mental health. Mark has been working with Christians, with non-Christians. He’s a certified counselor. So looking forward to having you enter into the discussion as we talk about mental health, as we talk about how we go forward as Christians, especially coming out of COVID and look forward to the future. We talk about community as well and the importance of that. So hope this episode is helpful to you.

Daniel Markin:

Hey. Welcome to Indoubt. My name’s Daniel Markin, and I’m joined today by Dr. Mark Mayfield. Mark, thank you for being on the show today.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah, my pleasure, Daniel. Thank you.

Daniel Markin:

I’m really, really excited about this episode. I know we were just chatting before the show, but you have a lot of interesting credentials beside your name. You are a board certified counselor, and you’ve been doing a lot of time thinking and talking about and speaking, you mentioned teaching at universities. But one of the things that you’ve kind of been honing in on recently, which I think is so, so important is this idea of loneliness. I want to talk a lot about that today, but also just hear from you a little bit about some of your ministry, some of your life, some of your family. So I don’t know. Why don’t we start there? Mark, tell us a little bit about who you are and how even got into the work that you’re doing.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah, absolutely. So I come from Colorado. I live in a small town called Monument, about 7,000, 8,000 people, and just love the small town vibe. Really close to Denver and Colorado Springs, but I have been in the counseling field for about 15 years. Before that, I was a youth and family pastor in a small mountain town near Breckenridge, Colorado and did that for about four-five years. Before that, I was at university and had my own mental health journey. I talk about this in my book The Path Out of Loneliness. But I am a suicide survivor, and just in some ways in my own journey into health has led me into my own journey to help care for people. That’s why I’m so passionate about this topic is that we need to have more and more ambassadors or as I call them kingdom advocates to really walk alongside people that are struggling with mental health, struggling with relational health, struggling with loneliness.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So currently, I teach at Colorado Christian University in their clinical mental health master’s program, and I also am a founder and CEO of Mayfield Counseling Centers. We’ve got 30 counselors here in Colorado Springs and do about 1300 to 1500 appointments a month. Then this book is kind of happenstance. It came out of just the message and publishers loved it and picked it up. So it’s getting ready to release. I’m just thrilled about getting that message out and putting practical tools in the hands of the church.

Daniel Markin:

I think what you’re doing right now is so important, especially at the moment that you’re doing it. Us coming out of COVID and things seem like they’re opening up, but then it’s like, man, are we going to be heading for more lockdowns? I don’t know if anyone has any idea. I do know that people have been feeling so lonely, and that’s something that even in my ministry because I’m doing some youth and young adults ministry. Vancouver’s known as one of the loneliest cities in the world. You mentioned that you’re doing up to 1300 counseling sessions with your company per month. How many people who are really struggling right now, especially with COVID, especially with loneliness.

Daniel Markin:

Can you just comment a little briefly on what isolation and self isolation, the effects of that happen on people? Because my understanding from self isolation is we do that to criminals as a form of punishment. My wife and I were just watching… Do you remember the show Prison Break? It was on in like 2004. We’re watching Prison Break right now, and that was one of the main themes is one of the characters is locked up in self isolation, and it’s his form of punishment. Every once in a while, he’s given opportunities to speak with people and be in relationship with them. But I’m convinced that it goes against the design of humanity to have relationship taken away from you, but I’d love to hear how you understand that and maybe even provide some more insight onto what isolation is doing physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually to people.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah. It is astounding. I think one of the things that probably the reason that I was so passionate about this message and wrote this was… And kind of the backstory to this is that I signed the contract for this book three and a half weeks before COVID hit. So if you can think about just the providence of God with the message. It’s something that I’ve been seeing historically in the work that I’ve been doing that this was coming. It’s kind of the writing is on the wall, especially with the type of society that we’re becoming where we’re hiding behind screens, when we’re engaging in conversations around the kind of tribalistic mindset around social media. We jump on the bandwagons to belong and to believe and that kind of stuff. We don’t really engage in those face-to-face connections. We think that in a lot of ways we think it’s supplemental. It’s equal. Two plus two equals four type of thing when it comes to we can be on social media and we can have relationship or we can be Zoom.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

You and I are enjoying this conversation right now, but we’re connected over Zoom. How much more rich could the conversation be if we were in the same room together and we were feeling each other’s emotions and the energy of the excitement around these kinds of things. I think it’s kind of like with the cart before the horse. Does loneliness beget isolation, or does isolation beget loneliness? How does that cycle continue? I think we have not seen the full force of the effects of COVID yet. I think that’s coming. I’m not trying to be fatalistic. I’m not trying to go overboard, but I think in a lot of ways the effects of COVID are on the mental health piece are coming.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

It’s frightening in some ways because we are not only being bombarded with 24 hour news, but we’re being bombarded by every notification that pops up on our social media. So we think that being connected to the world in this way is a good thing, but we’re connected to a screen versus connected to a person. I think that is where I say that isolation begets loneliness and that’s where the cycle, in my opinion, begins.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, there’s an interesting dynamic of feeling connected and feeling in control because you know what’s going on around you. But then at the same time, you can know everything that’s going on around you but you actually can’t do anything about that. I imagine that bringing on lots of anxiety to people too because you feel this enormous pressure of wanting to prepare, but you can’t. Oh, things are looking horrible. Things are collapsing, but I can’t do anything about it. You just wonder if the constant bombardment… Like you mentioned notifications, alarmism, alarmism. Everything’s fatalistic. Everything’s ending. It’s the worst. These headlines are huge because a lot of businesses make money off the clicks. So you have so many different things competing there.

Daniel Markin:

I want to ask you this because I’ve often wondered on the news, when you watch the news and you see stuff about COVID and it’s like COVID cases, 125 in the last 24 hours. It’s in all caps. What does all caps communicate to people as they’re seeing this on TV, as they’re seeing this on social media? I’d love to know what you think because to me it’s screaming like terror. Everything’s ending.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Well, it is. It is. It’s like you’re being yelled at. You think about when somebody texts you and it’s in all caps, how do you take that without seeing them face-to-face? They’re mad at me. Are they trying to emphasize something? What is this? I’ve been talking to my daughters about this. In some ways it’s manipulative propaganda is what it is. Think about this, what if we talked that way on the news about mental health? How many people are dying daily from suicide? How many people are dying daily? Now, I don’t want to negate the effects of COVID. I mean, I’ve had COVID. It’s not fun. I’ve had family members that have died from COVID. I get the effect of it, but like you said, 125 new cases. Okay, is that in my city? Is that in my neighborhood? Is that in my state, in my province? What are we talking about here? So some things are just relative too and we can’t differentiate that.

Daniel Markin:

The thing where they’re saying we have cases exploding in India. 3,000 new cases in a day. You’re like, “Wait a minute. They have a billion people.”

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Right. Yes.

Daniel Markin:

So I guess a lot of context is key, but with everything coming at us so fast in social media, maybe we don’t have time for a lot of the context. You were mentioning a lot of these things haven’t even played out yet. The effects of COVID are going to be happening over the next five, 10 years. Can you give us your prediction through your research, through your study of past research as well and just noticing patterns, what do you think the mental health landscape or the effects of COVID are going to look like five years from now and 10 years from now?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Well, let me just put you in perspective. I think in just… I don’t know if it was in six months timeframe, we had 93,000 new overdoses. So overdoses are on the rise, right? Suicides are up across the board. Not just across the board in the typical subgroups. I’ll say this and I’ll preface this is that suicide has traditionally been a middle class, upper middle class issue among predominantly white Caucasian families. Again, maybe not the time to get into that conversation but there’s reasons behind that. But we have seen sharp spikes among the Latino, LatinX populations, the Black populations. Traditionally families that don’t have suicidal issues. We’ve seen those increase. Research, if it’s increased .01%, that’s statistically significant. We’re seeing things increase two, three, four, five, 10% across the board.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So I think with the isolation, we’re going to see a lot more overdoses, a lot more suicides, and a lot more of anxiety and depression that are going to be popping up that are going to be really difficult to engage in.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Now I do spend a lot of time in the book really talking through how as a church we can respond to these things, and I think that we don’t have to get to that five, 10 year prediction. I think there’s a lot of things that we can do to mitigate that, but it’s going to take intentionality. It’s going to take us stepping into our own anxieties and fears around the unknown. But I know I have a God that is all powerful, all knowing, and walks with us in this. So I think we have to put that fear aside as we desire to engage those around us.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I love about Christianity and one of the most important things of Christianity is this idea of community. It’s been amazing as we’ve been… Those two are so closely linked in my studies. I just came to the end of my master’s here. One of the things I’ve seen is that when Christ saves a person, it is an individual saving. The relationship between God and man is restored first and foremost. But directly afterwards, you are saved into a family. So relationship is… I feel like fruit isn’t a strong enough word for it. The saving of that relationship, it’s like you are now adopted into this new family, brought into this new family of relationship, which is the church. So that’s an essential part of being a Christian is being with one another in community.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Also, think about this for a second. Scientifically the brain does not reach its fullest potential unless it’s in a trusting, safe relationship with somebody else. We actually have science that shows our cardiovascular system does not operate. Our veins are actually restricted when we’re not in a safe relationship with somebody else. So it increases heart disease, cardiovascular disease. Our immune system, our stress response is actually kept on. So the cortisol that is dripping in our system that keeps that fight, flight, or freeze going is actually turned on unless we’re in a safe, trusting relationship with somebody else.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So we’re finding that there is a direct qualitative link between loneliness, relational loneliness and cancer rates and cardiovascular rates and immuno response rates and that kind of stuff. We shouldn’t be surprised, but it’s fascinating how creative God is that these things are interlaced. Research shows that a healthy marriage, people live five to 10 years longer in a healthy marriage.

Daniel Markin:

Unreal. That’s not surprising to me, especially that if you take cancer, it’s not surprising to me that someone would actually not survive as long with cancer. The will to live, the will to fight, a lot of that could disappear if someone’s alone. But that’s interesting to me that there’s a higher percentage of them developing it. That’s insane to me.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah. Well, you think about it. So to really put it simply is that we are in relational fight, flight, or freeze mode, our sympathetic nervous system is turned on. Our parasympathetic nervous system hasn’t kicked in so that we don’t have the ability to calm down. So we’re always in heightened alert relationally. Cortisol, the stress hormone is actually… It’s like the facet that’s kept on over a rock and over time that rock is eaten away. Well, our immuno response is depleted. So our body can’t fight infection the way it used to because of our stress response. As the immune system decreases, it opens it up more to infection. So when the infection comes, it’s stronger. So people have a more difficult time recovering. So the mitigative factor in all of that is quality of relationships. Whether it be familial, church, friends.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. So all of those exist oftentimes at church. But what happens when if in the fall, I’m anticipating another wave or something, right? If they lockdown people again, what can we do if we can’t be with one another?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

I think find ways to get around it. Not in a go against the government way. But it’s going to be a lot of work on the church, but mask up and take a doorbell ditch picnic and you sit on the lawn and they sit on the front porch. You have community. There’s got to be ways that we can be creative in that. Nothing replaces sitting in a living room and having a meal or sitting in a dining room and having a meal. But my dad had a pretty big cancer scare, almost died right before COVID and then into COVID. When he was healing, we didn’t want to get too close to them. So we did that. We went to their house and we boxed up some food, and we sat on the lawn. They sat on their front porch, and we had conversation. We were close enough to see each other but kept our distance. So I think there’s definitely ways that we can avoid, not avoid but engage in that.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Then Zoom groups is an alternative I think too. It’s not ideal because we know that the proximity of being with each other is important. Parts of our brain actually don’t fire relationally and emotionally unless we’re in the same room together.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. Do you know what, I want to even say this. I think one of the most healing things for me during COVID was planning things that are just fun, especially as the church. Getting together and laughing. It doesn’t have to be this deep Bible study. It doesn’t have to be something where it’s like a lot of work because for some people that’s really stressful. I think it should be also fun. Being in community should be fun. Laughing is important. Laughing is important for mental health, right?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Oh, it’s huge. Yeah. The receptors that are the feel good, dopamine neurotransmitters that are kicked off in laughter and serotonin and all that kind of stuff. So good.

Daniel Markin:

Let me ask you this then, as we’re thinking about… Because this show is for young adults and adults. As a young adult, what are some really practical steps that you’ve seen this in your research. Maybe you actually as a counselor recommend this to young adults, people that you’re counseling, or just anyone in general. What are some practical things that we can do in order to maintain stronger mental health in the months going forward so that we do not become part of that five year, 10 year window of increased anxiety, depression? What are some things that… Because a lot of times yes, we need to have faith. Yes, we need to believe in the Lord. But we have human agency in that too. There’s practical things that we have to put into practice, otherwise we will suffer.

Daniel Markin:

So what are some practical things we can do?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Well, I think the number one thing, and this is where if you can do this, you’re breaking through and you’re winning half the battle, is really take stock, honest stock of where you’re at. I think what I’ve noticed with young adult generation, my generation, and then other generations as well is that we have a hard time reflecting on our own status. Where are we in this? How am I doing? Am I using food or pornography or am I using other types of addictions to numb out how I’m really doing? Am I ignoring it? Am I avoiding it? So I think really allowing us to take stock.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So I love journaling. It’s not for everybody. But I love pulling a journal out and just asking the question, how am I? Truly, how am I? Well, I’m struggling today, and I’m feeling I’m struggling with bouts of loneliness. Why? Because I haven’t… Whatever that maybe. Ask a bunch of questions in the book of just kind of reflective pieces, but it is just taking stock of where I’m at. Honest stock where I’m at and sitting with that tension. I think we a lot of times don’t realize that tension is the only way that we can grow. When we feel tension, it should either move us forward or moves us backwards. It should move us forward. If we sit with that tension, we can propel ourselves forward to grow.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

This is where I want young adults that are listening to think about this too. There’s no such thing as good or bad emotions. They’re just emotions. Some are easier to deal with than others. But if we can look at them as neither good nor bad, they just are. They’re indicators like an engine light on our car. They’re indicators of where we’re at and how we’re doing. Now we can sit with them. We can learn with them, and I always use the phrase what would it be like to become old friends with your emotions? So you’re not surprised by them, you’re not scared by them. You know how to sit with them, engage them, and grow from them. I think that’s step number one to be honest. That takes time. It takes discipline. It takes time.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

I think the second thing is asking yourself who in my life is a friend and a mentor? I think we need both. We need people that are speaking into our lives and challenging us from a mentor standpoint. It can be a counselor. It could be a pastor. It could be a spiritual advisor. But somebody that is older than us, speaking in. So I think a lot of times I’m seeing with just generations and young adults who like to surround ourself with people that are like-minded and the same age. But we need people that have gone before. We need people that can speak into that wisdom piece for us as well.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

This might come to a shock to you, but insert sarcasm there. Is that I think everybody needs to have a counselor. Everybody needs to have somebody that is a professional, mental health professional that can maybe not every week, maybe not but once or twice a month, once a month, once every couple months. Just checking in with somebody that can really challenge you from a mental health perspective and engage you in those conversations.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Then what kind of friends do you have, what kind of community do you have I think is really important as well. But I think if we’re doing those things and with the journaling is being in God’s word intentionally, taking time for solitude. Solitude, isolation, and loneliness are different. Solitude is actually how we navigate and how we reflect on our relationship with God because God meets us in the solitude. I think another thing too is just take stock of how much…

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

John Eldredge is a friend of mine, and we’ve done a lot of work together. He says this that we have to find ways to disconnect from the 24/7 bombardment of information. We cannot have the news on all the time. I’ve erased all of the news apps on my phone, and I’ve turned off all of the notifications on my social media. I have to be connected to social media just from a publicity standpoint and different things like that. But I don’t have the notifications anymore.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So if we can do those things and remove ourselves from the bombardment of information, our body is not meant to be taking that much information in at all times. So how do we find reprieve from that is also going to really affect our mental health and the loneliness there.

Daniel Markin:

Wow. I love what you’re saying about the checking in with a mental health professional or like a counselor. You need some of that professional insight. So I think that’s really, really big. I mean, probably some jobs have allowances for that too where people can actually write that off or it’s even built into their job description where they have allowances or budget for that. So I guess, yeah, take advantage of it.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Well, take advantage of it. I also challenge those that are listening too, how often do you go out to eat? If you maybe say you go out to eat three times a week and you do a coffee three times a week, take two of those each week and replace it with counseling. Now you’re paying $85, $75 towards counseling, and you do it for two or three months or two to three weeks. Personally I have a counselor, and I was seeing her for about weekly for about six months. Then I’m back to a place of homeostasis. I’m good. Now we check in once every quarter. So it’s not like it’s a life sentence. Like you said, it’s a check up. It’s just a let’s see where we are from a status standpoint, and then where do we need to go from there. It’s a good analogy.

Daniel Markin:

So Mark, we’re coming to the end here of our time together, but I want to ask you this just on the way out. The gospel is our greatest hope. Jesus is our greatest hope. We are blessed by that. I just want to hear from you, what has been giving you hope now as you’ve been in this battle? You’ve been walking with people through mental health and walking through COVID. What has been given you hope these days as you look forward at the future, and what can you encourage us with as you go?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah. I just think the restorative mission of Christ hasn’t changed. The Holy Spirit and the activity of the Holy Spirit in us and in the body of Christ has not changed. In fact, I’m seeing more evidence of the Holy Spirit in his work in the body of Christ and just the community in general. So I think the encouragement that I would have is that we need to learn to sit with the tension that is presented to us because growth truly comes out of that. But think about the times throughout history when there has been an explosion of faith. It’s been in the times that have been difficult because the fire is restored and rekindled in a lot of individuals.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So I think we’re on the cusp of great revival in my opinion, and I think many, many hearts are going to be turning to the Lord. So I think we just need to be prepared and part of the preparation is our conversation. How do we create places for people to belong before they believe? I think that’s a big, big deal of somebody coming in and being accepted for who they are as image bearers of Christ, whether they realize it or not, and allowing them to share their story and to process. I think this is huge.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

So I think I just really encourage… I’ve been hearing more and more stories of just places of people belonging and then believing. I’m actually really excited about where we are in history from a spiritual standpoint.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. Mark, thank you for being on the program today, and I was encouraged. I hope everyone else listening is encouraged. All the best to you and looking forward to seeing how the Lord is going to continue to use you, but also use this book that you have written. Where can we get this book?

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah, absolutely. You can get it on Tyndale House, their publishing, NavPress Publishing. But the easiest place is probably Amazon and just look up The Path Out of Loneliness by Dr. Mark Mayfield. It’s on pre-order now on Audible, Kindle. You can also follow me on @thedrmayfield on Instagram and Facebook or check out my website at drmayfield.com. We’ll have updates on that kind of stuff as well. But if you’re interested in other podcasts, there’s also The Therapist Invitation that I host every week. We invite you into the therapy room, and we just talk about all things mental health from a biblical worldview.

Daniel Markin:

Okay. We’ll make sure to check that out. Mark, thank you again. And we look forward to speaking with you again and having you back on the program.

Dr. Mark Mayfield:

Yeah, Daniel, I appreciate it. Thanks for the work that you’re doing. I just hope this encourages a bunch of people.

Daniel Markin:

Thanks again to Dr. Mark Mayfield for joining us on the program. If you want to again find more information, you can go to his website. Just Google Dr. Mark Mayfield and also the Therapist Invitation Podcast is going to be an interesting resource for you to take hold of and to listen to. Just a reminder too that his book is available on Amazon.

Daniel Markin:

That is on for now. I hope that you have a great rest of your week. All the best.