Ep. 308: Top 5 Questions About Christianity -Part 1

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the indoubt podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s word. For more info on indoubt, visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Daniel Markin:

Hey, this is Daniel and welcome back to another episode of indoubt, and I’m joined today by Andy Steiger. He’s a friend of the show. You may know the name and if you live locally in British Columbia especially, you’ll know his ministry with Apologetics Canada. Not just in BC, but they’re all across Canada. They’re running conferences and all sorts of things like that. But today we’re talking about Questioning Christianity. And we’re looking at various different questions people ask about Christianity. Questions about Jesus, questions about the Bible, about the church, and so hope you’ll listen in and enjoy.

Hey, this is Daniel Markin with indoubt, and today I’m joined by longtime friend of the show, President of Apologetics Canada. Andy Steiger.

Andy Steiger:

Thank you, Daniel. What a privilege to be with you today. It’s good to see you, man.

Daniel Markin:

It’s good to see you. It’s so good to have you back. I feel like we haven’t talked in a while. For those listening, Andy has been a mentor of mine over the years. He taught me everything I know. I was an intern under him and then I studied my masters and he was one of my academic advisors, pastoral advisors. And all the while he was also running Apologetics Canada and I got involved in a little bit of Apologetics Canada stuff with him. And so we’re super happy to have him on because he speaks to young adults, he speaks to the current issues going on in our culture. And just to toot Andy’s horn a little bit, a lot of the stuff that he was talking about with Apologetics Canada, his research, things that he was mentioning like 3, 4, 5 years ago. I remember in particular at a staff meeting, Andy, you were like, “Hey, something come down the pipe, is something called transhumanism.”

And basically you just talked about that for a little bit. And it went over everyone’s heads. Everyone had no idea what it was. Well, sure enough, here we are five years later and this is a real discussion. About things like transhumanism and we could go on, but your ministry has been always looking ahead and speaking to those issues, and I’ve been super thankful and happy about that. And maybe let me ask you this, what is your adventures with Apologetics Canada? What has that looked like in the past year? Where have you been? And then, what are you looking forward to here in the future?

Andy Steiger:

Well, first of all, thanks again Daniel to be with you. This is great. You and I had a great run and I always enjoy an opportunity to do ministry with you. But with regards to Apologetics Canada, it has been a wild ride of God’s blessing. We just have been so busy in a good way, getting evermore opportunities to share the gospel all over the place. And it’s a blessing, but it’s also a challenge because we have to constantly be thinking about what’s the best use of our time and resources as we seek to tell people across Canada about the wonderful hope that we have in Jesus. So we didn’t count it up this year, we probably should have, but even during Covid we did 90 speaking engagements in one year with Apologetics Canada.

Daniel Markin:

Wow.

Andy Steiger:

And every year it’s just ratcheted up a little bit more.

And this year’s been no different. We’ve been very busy and intriguingly this year, now that things are opening up more and we’re traveling more, did a speaking engagement from Hungary through Romania all the way to the border of Ukraine. That was probably a highlight for me. Getting to share the gospel across Romania and just seeing God at work in Europe, and just being encouraged in that way was probably a highlight for me. But we’ve had lots of things going on. For those of you who aren’t aware of Apologetics Canada, we do a variety of things from sharing the gospel, but we also engage in academic conversations. Both at the lay level and at the highest level. So for example, you might find this one interesting, Daniel, but I spoke at the world congress in philosophy of law. Challenging some of the stuff that’s going on here in Canada, particularly around MAID…

Daniel Markin:

Which is, what’s MAID?

Andy Steiger:

Medical assistance in dying. And particularly there are some new changes coming to that law in March. Allowing for people with mental illness to access MAID and other things. And so I spoke out on it, I wrote on it and the article I wrote is being peer reviewed currently for the Canadian Supreme Court Law Review. So it kind of gives people a taste, like we’re all over the place doing all sorts of stuff and I feel privileged to be a part of it.

Daniel Markin:

So good. And lots of stuff obviously coming up. You run a number of conferences for people across Canada. I know Apologetics Canada Conference often has been in BC, but you also have one in Ontario and then Saskatchewan. Did I hear Saskatchewan this year?

Andy Steiger:

That’s right, yeah. In fact, thanks for bringing that up. We’d love to see anybody who’s interested. We’ll be out in Saskatchewan in February 10th and 11th, then we’re in British Columbia and that will be our 11th conference that we’ve done out here. That one is the first weekend in March, the 3rd and 4th. And then there’s an Ontario one that’s coming and that’ll be in November of next year. But, if there’s anybody listening to this that’s interested in coming out, we would love to see you out at those conferences. And it’s exciting, by the way, Daniel might be interested to know, the interest in these conferences have never been greater, particularly the BC one. Every year we’ve sold that conference out and this is looking to be another year like that. The interest level’s been quite high.

Daniel Markin:

And just for those listening too, the one thing that I’ve always appreciated about Apologetics Canada is the conferences are very affordable. There’s some conferences you’re like, “Oh my goodness. It’s $200 for my ticket for the weekend.” And you guys keep that really low, like a college student, high school student can afford that. And so I’ve always appreciated that. And all that info obviously can be found on your website. But what we’re going to talk about today is, Questioning Christianity. And a lot of your ministry, you started off in coffee shops talking with people and they would bring questions about Christianity. And that’s, I think, where some of your heart was from launching Apologetics Canada. There was young adults leaving the church. And so that’s how you kind of got into that. But you’d recently taught or had an open kind of forum at Northview, correct?

Where you, for five weeks were discussing and just offering up discussion around five different questions and you called the thing, Questioning Christianity. And so what I wanted to do a little bit today is maybe begin to look at some of those, but we’ll start with this first one. Let’s call this session one. Okay. Why don’t you give me a 30 seconds, what is the Christian story? And then can you begin to talk to us about, what were some of the other responses people gave around that question? What has their experience with the Christian story been? How have they perceived it? How have they maybe been affected by it or has it been difficult for them? Because people grow up in different denominations and they might even hear in different churches, different teaching, a different Christian story than what would actually be the true Christian story. So how do you understand what is in brief 30 seconds, the Christian story?

Andy Steiger:

Okay, before I get into my brief 30 second, ‘what is the Christian story’. Let’s just talk about that for a second because, I think there’s two things that are interesting about that question, Daniel. One is that a lot of people perhaps have heard the Christian story, but it’s a quite different thing to hear something then to put something in your own words and verbally communicate that. And so I would just encourage people who are listening to this, maybe if you’re alone in your car sometime or you’re just driving somewhere. Just verbally in your own words, tell the Christian story in 30 seconds. What would you say, sort of idea. And it might actually be more difficult than you think, in that people in general just aren’t used to doing that. So that would be my first point, in that. Just something to think about. And the second thing is, when you’re telling the Christian story… This is such an interesting point that you’re bringing up Daniel, because even you said people may have heard a different story.

And this is kind of an interesting aspect of the Christian story, particularly when we’re thinking about the gospel. And that is, when you look at Jesus and you look at the different ways that He shares the gospel, He uses a multiplicity of ways to get out the Christian story. I mean, doesn’t He?

Daniel Markin:

Absolutely.

Andy Steiger:

And it really depends upon who his audience is. He’ll use farming, He’ll use construction, He’ll use fishing, He’ll use finance, He will use religion. He’ll use whatever seems to be around Him or whatever He thinks His audience is going to be able to connect to. I one time listed it out, all the different ways that He kind of shares it and it’s huge. So I think there’s something to be said to that. That people need to appreciate that there is some flexibility, there’s some creativity in how you’re telling the story and what you’re going to highlight in that story.

And this is something that I talk about at Questioning Christianity. So when I give that initial story, I tend to use purpose as my centerpiece, if you will. My focal piece of, “I’m going to tell you the Christian story and I’m going to do so from the perspective of purpose. What is God’s purpose in the universe, in creation? What is God doing here?” But as you know, I could come at that Christian story from a different focal point. I could come at it from sin, I could come at it from forgiveness. I could come at it from many vantage points. Friendship, family, whatever, reconciliation of all sorts.

But what I like to use, is I tend to like to start, particularly when you’re dealing with people that are new to Christianity, or that are having questions, I tend to like to use purpose as my focal point, because it tends to help tie in different questions that they might have. Or give them a view of things that is maybe a little more clearer. Because I’m often surprised how people will be very reductive in their understanding of the Christian story and they’ll want to reduce it to that focal point only. Am I making sense?

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, you are. Well, I think that focal point oftentimes, we;ll just boil it down to, “Jesus died for our sins.” That’s what I hear all the time, “What’s the Christian story, what’s the gospel?” Well, Jesus died for our sins. And you and I…

Andy Steiger:

Or you need to invite God into your heart or something like that.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. Totally. And that’s true. He did die for our sins. But I think to have a more robust view of what that story is can be super helpful in grounding us more in than just a, “Well, Jesus saved me from my sin.” Like what you’re getting at, which is, “Well, He actually gives us a purpose to live for.” Not just saving us from something but saving us to something. So maybe give me a quick 30 seconds as you describe it, purpose what would.

Andy Steiger:

Yeah. So here’s my third…

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, give me your elevator pitch.

Andy Steiger:

Yeah. Yeah. So here’s how I often will talk about the Christian story. I’ll go all the way back to the beginning that Christians believe that God exists, and that God created the heavens and the earth, and that God’s purpose is in creating. And in fact, one of the things I talk about is that an act of creation is an act of purpose. The two are synonymous. And then as God is creating right, as He’s acting out His purpose, the ‘why’ behind what He’s created. We see that, if you will, the camera angle begins to focus not on the universe, not on earth, not on life, but humanity. That humans are why God’s creating this universe. God is creating people for a purpose. And that purpose as we see in Genesis, and you see this throughout the Bible, is that that purpose is for relationship. God has created people to be in relationship with Himself and to be in relationship with one another.

And that this is ultimately what it means to be human. And this is what it means to flourish as a human. And one of the reasons I bring this up is because, we never define a thing by its parts. We always define a thing by its purpose.

Daniel Markin:

Give me an example.

Andy Steiger:

Whether that be, like I have a cup in my hand right now and you could ask me, “Hey Andy, what is that?” And I’d never say it’s glass, or reduce it to silicone and sand and the minerals that make it up. I would say, “Oh, it’s a cup.” It’s a vessel that’s purpose is to hold water, which is what I’m drinking. And that’s how we define it. We don’t define it by its parts, we define it by its purpose. And the same is true of what it means to be human. It’s particularly from a biblical perspective.

And that we were created for the purpose of relationship with God and relationship with one another. Now the story then of Christianity is that purpose being broken by evil and sin. That relationship has been broken. Our relationship with God has been broken. Our relationship with one another has been broken. Our relationship with our planet has been broken. And you and I are living in the midst of brokenness. But then the story that we get into with regards to Christianity, is that God hasn’t given up on us in that relationship. He hasn’t left it broken, but that He has worked to intervene on our behalf, that He might reconcile us back into relationship with himself and into relationship with one another. And so this becomes this arc of the Christian story that begins in relationship. It gets broken, but God brings that back to restoration in the end.

So the story ends the same way it begins. And this ultimately then focuses away from us. The Bible begins to focus on of course God and particularly Jesus, that He is the one that is going to reconcile us. That’s going to restore us back into right relationship with God and people.

Daniel Markin:

So with that story, why do you think that story’s compelling?

Andy Steiger:

Here’s what I think’s interesting about it. First, everybody is looking for purpose in their lives. We are purposeful creatures looking for purpose, if you will. And this is where things get interesting, is we will try to find purpose in so many things that don’t fill us, that don’t satisfy. And Daniel, the thing that I find really fascinating about this, is that all people understand what really matters in life. The question is, “How long will it take them to see it?” Because it’s so funny, whenever you talk to somebody that had a near-death experience, what do they think about?

What was their vision? Right? It’s never, “Man Daniel, I had this near-death experience and man, I just was thinking about my car. And how much I love my car and I got to spend more time with my car.” No. No, people never say that. And as a pastor, I’ve spent a lot of time with people in ICU and in my time going into these ICU units, I have never seen somebody that’s been like, “Hey man, can you get my diploma so I can put that on my wall in here?” And…

Daniel Markin:

Can you bring in my shoe collection?

Andy Steiger:

A picture of my house? Nobody does that. And here’s what I notice as a pastor for 20 years, everyone’s the same. When you get close to death, you hone in on what really matters. Everyone in those situations surrounds themselves with God and people, period. And the question that I’m challenging people with, particularly in questioning Christianity or any of the work I’m doing, is if you know that’s actually what really matters in life, then why don’t you live that way now? Why do you got to wait until death’s door to figure it out? And ultimately I think that it’s written in our hearts. The Bible talks about this, Paul talks about this in Romans, and the question is whether or not you and I want to act on that. And then we realize that if we’re going to, we’re going to need help. And ultimately this is where Jesus comes in and He can help us to fulfill the purpose that we were created for. Community.

Daniel Markin:

Absolutely. And we as Christians believe that all of this is centered on Jesus. Which would bring us to then session two, which is questioning the life of Jesus. And maybe let me ask you this, as you think about the person of Jesus, what do people find compelling about Jesus? But then on the other end, what do people find confusing about Jesus?

Andy Steiger:

I think people are compelled by Jesus’s love and His commitment to relationship. I think it’s refreshing. That, this is a guy who loves God and He loves people and He never loses sight of God and He never loses sight of people, all the way to his death. And this is one of those moments where, for me as a Christian that I’m like, “Man, I love Jesus so much.” Because I have come to realize, I think maybe this is the heart of discipleship, come to realize that I’m not Jesus. That I suck and that I need Jesus in my life and that God loves me and wants to be a part of my life. And that through Him, I can be like Him. And I want to be like Him. And maybe some people that are listening to this, you just need to hear this.

Maybe some of you, you just need to hear that you suck. And that you can’t save yourself and that you need help and Jesus is there and He’s ready and willing to come into your life and to help you. However, I think Daniel, there’s other people that need to realize that although yes, we can suck, God loves you. And so it’s like perhaps we would say, “You’re not as bad as you think and you’re not as good as you think.” That you have been created in the image of God and that God loves you and desires that you would be in community with Him and with one another. And that you are of incredible value, so much value that Jesus died for you, that you could be reconciled back to Him, back to God. That you could have a right relationship with God and a right relationship with people through him.

So it’s kind of like this balancing act of realizing that Jesus is amazing and that you need Jesus, but that God thinks you’re amazing and loves you. So Christianity’s unique in that, don’t you think? It’s this constant balancing act where you’re pulling back and forth on these two realities.

Daniel Markin:

It’s at both times super humbling. You’re humbled by how brutal we are, how pathetic we are, and yet we’re overwhelmed by how loved we are. And despite all that. I think the kingdom, the gospel so often, it just feels so upside down in those things. Where it’s like, in order to attain the kingdom, you got to get low. You have to get low, you got to humble yourself. And sometimes God will humble you. It’s so interesting. And what does He do to the proud? Well, He’ll strike down the proud. And, so those things are always flipped and I always find that interesting. Especially because, and I really resonated with… I think a lot of people right now just feel like they suck. And they’re just told that, “There’s so many problems. And most of the problems are you.” In particular young men, right? It’s something where it’s just like, “You’re the issue with society.” And I think young men need to hear, “Yeah, but you could be a complete and through Christ a force for good and His kingdom, that you could never have imagined.”

And I talk about purpose, I think, Jesus invites us into that journey. And the thing too I think people are missing often in Christianity is the… We’ll approach it, life with Jesus and we’ll be like, “It’s all up in heaven one day.” But we’re missing out in the fact that Jesus had a very physical life in this world and did a lot of physical things in this world. And we in turn have a physical life in this world and He requires us to do a lot of physical ministry in this life. And so there’s an invitation to do work, and for Him.

Andy Steiger:

That’s a great segue actually into that second part of the question you’re asking me is, “Why do people get confused or struggle with Jesus?” And Daniel, I think this is the part where they struggle with him. Is because Jesus talks a lot about… He warns people a lot, particularly about hell. And so it almost kind of throws you off when you’re reading Him because you’re like, “Here’s this dude that loves people like crazy and He’s such a refreshing, amazing person. But then why does He keep talking about hell?”

And what I think people don’t appreciate often about Jesus is that Jesus is bringing up something that He doesn’t want for you. So Jesus is constantly calling you into a life of flourishing and like any good person, He’s constantly warning you about what’s going to lead to your destruction. And so there are these two things, and I think this is something difficult for us, particularly in this culture in which we’re constantly getting preached these sermons by secular society. That, “You need to do you, if you want to have the best, if you want the best life, and if you want to be totally fulfilled, then do whatever you want to do.” Whatever that is, sexually or whatever it is, just do that thing and that’s going to bring you fulfillment.

And it’s like, well, how many stories do you have to hear of people that have ruined their lives, that have gotten to the end of that pathway of themselves, that lead them to rock bottom and complete destruction, until they realize that that will never do? And then what does Jesus do? Well, He tells you stories about the prodigal son. Where this son who’s got this great dad, but the son gets caught up in that idea, right? “Oh, there’s something better out there.” So he goes and spends all of his inheritance to do all those things that he’s being told will lead to his flourishing, but it leads to his destruction. And then he finds himself at rock bottom going, “I need to go back to my dad.”

And Jesus is saying, “Man, God loves you so much that you can go back. You can go back to your dad.” You can come back, that forgiveness is available to you. And maybe there’s some listening to this. You just need to hear that. God loves you so much, He’s willing to forgive, to reconcile back with you. And this Daniel’s, something I’ve been thinking a lot about, and I’m like, what are your thoughts on this? That I can’t help but feel like we need, in the 21st century to just, especially as Christians to have a Jesus anthem on play in the background, like nonstop. That’s just, “Jesus is enough.”

It’s like a drumbeat. Because we constantly get caught into all these other things that, something else will be enough. Oh, sex will fulfill me, it’ll be enough. And it’s like we need this repenting moment where we turn away from whatever has caught our attention and come back to this foundation that, “No, no, no, Jesus is enough.” Jesus talks about this in Matthew 7 and that’s how He ends His sermon on the Mount. He says, “Two types of people in the world, the wise and the foolish. And the wise person builds their life on Me. I’m the solid rock. I’m enough.” And you will be able to weather the storms of life.

Daniel Markin:

And with that invitation too, is an invitation to change. And I think because people will be looking two things, not just to consume, but then we’ll get in our head, be like, “Well, I want to be a force for good. So how do I improve myself?” Self-help. Self-improvement. People go to conferences, they’ll go to workshops, all that stuff, with a good intent of trying to improve themselves. And what Jesus offers in that is, “You believe in Me, you follow Me, I will begin to change you and make you more like Me.” And that’s a hard work, but also really exciting that we could become more holy.

Andy Steiger:

It’s freeing.

Daniel Markin:

Well, it’s completely freeing because at that point you have nothing else to lose.

Andy Steiger:

Because you’re never enough.

Daniel Markin:

Right. But you’ve got nothing else to lose. You come to the Christ, you say, “I got nothing. I can’t do this. You do it.” The idea of abiding in Jesus, there is such a release there. That the more we give him, the greater our love and almost the greater support we feel from him. It’s crazy. Again, the more we give up… Upside down kingdom, the more we give up, the more free we feel. It’s just so bizarre.

Andy Steiger:

So I hope listeners are hearing this real quick here, just that idea that you’re not enough. If you’re trying to make yourself into something, it’s a never-ending project, but Jesus is enough. It’s kind of like, back to that idea of, you can try your whole life to try to make yourself into an image, or you can just accept that you’ve already been made in an image. And you can rest in that, that you’ve been made in the image of God and you are enough. You don’t need to do anything, but receive it.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. And then trust Him as He takes you on the ride. And I’m thankful that we actually just kind of happen, just to be discussing this because so often we’ll just say, “Jesus is enough” to someone as we’re passing on the street. But I’m glad that we just even took two minutes to actually nuance that a little bit and talk about what that can look like. But hey, we’re out of time for this episode, but what we want to do is, we want to do a part two with you. So if you’re listening, keep an eye out. We’re going to have Andy back on and we’re going to continue our Questioning Christianity here on part two of this episode.

Hey. Well thank you again, Andy, for being on the program, and thank you for listening. I always find it an amazing time chatting with Andy. He’s got so much knowledge and also communicates very clearly and simply, which I really appreciate about him. You’ll be able to catch part two of this program in the coming weeks on In Doubt. Thanks again for listening and a reminder, you can connect with us on social media. We’d love to chat with you and hear some feedback or maybe even some ideas for guests that you have. Thank you for listening. All the best.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes or Spotify. Or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Daniel Markin:

In Doubt is a ministry that exists to engage young people with biblical truth and provide answers for many of today’s questions of life, faith, and culture. Through audio programs, articles, and blogs indoubt reaches out to encourage, strengthen, and disciple young adults. To check out all the resources of indoubt, visit indoubt.ca in Canada or indoubt.com in the US.

Or if you’re in a position or share a passion for the ministry of young people, you can support the ongoing mission of engaging a new generation with the truth of the Bible. First, you can pray for this ministry. And second, and if you are able, please consider a financial gift by visiting indoubt.ca in Canada or indoubt.com in the US. Your gift of any amount is such a blessing and an answer to prayer. Thanks.