Ep. 54: Inflation, War, Tech, Discipleship, & Sheltered Christianity w/ Luke Friesen

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, this is Andrew Marcus. Welcome to THE INDOUBT SHOW. Listen, we got a wonderful program today. A very, very good topic. We’re talking about finding hope through hardship. We don’t have to look hard. Well, obviously I could have chose a better word than hard for looking through hardship. I just had a baby, we just… I didn’t just have a baby. My wife and I had our third child, and so that’s what you call baby brain. Anyways, I hope you are doing well today and I hope this conversation will be a blessing to you. It has really blessed me deeply. We see wars and rumors of wars. We see inflation. We see people struggling to buy groceries. It’s a really challenging time, and so we need to be anchored in hope. And so we have a very hopeful conversation with Luke Friesen from Northview Church in Youth Ministry for the last 12 years. God bless you. Enjoy today’s show.

All right, so we have Luke Friesen with us in studio. Luke, how you doing?

Luke Friesen:

Doing good, good.

Andrew Marcus:

Tell us, Luke, a little bit about who you are, your ministry life, what you’re doing now at the church.

Luke Friesen:

My name is Luke. I work at Northview Community Church. I’ve been there basically my whole life. My dad was a pastor. I’ve been working in youth ministry, high school specifically, for the past 12 years. Been paid by the church for 10 of it.

Andrew Marcus:

12 years in youth ministry, bro.

Luke Friesen:

It’s been a wild ride. Became a Christian after high school and then basically went right into ministry after that.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise God. Married?

Luke Friesen:

Yep, married. This is July, five years.

Andrew Marcus:

Five years. Come on, bro. Love it.

Luke Friesen:

Proved all my youth kids wrong. They said I was going to be single forever-

Andrew Marcus:

Suckers.

Luke Friesen:

I know, so, but yeah, that’s a bit about me.

Andrew Marcus:

Let’s dive in to the conversation. 2024 is going to, of course, come with many challenges. Again, we see wars, we see inflation, cost of living, all these different things. Mental health too, that has skyrocketed. How can young people get prepared for what is to come? How would you encourage them to cling to hope?

Luke Friesen:

I think what we need to cling to is something that doesn’t change. What you said there is so many things are changing all the time for people. Whether it’s wars or inflation, the housing, or just for kids to actually just go in and get food. It is crazy expensive compared to even when I was in high school, I’d literally get a McDouble for 99 cents.

Andrew Marcus:

Bro, those were the glory days.

Luke Friesen:

And now they’re spending $2.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, it’s unbelievable actually, and they’re smaller.

Luke Friesen:

So it’s like what do we teach our people to cling to do? Do we teach them to cling to being like, “Hey, you know what? You’re going to graduate from high school or graduate from college. You’re going to get a house. You’re going to get the wife, the kids, you’re going to have all these things.” And I think sometimes we teach incorrectly of what is actually the outcome of following Christ and so we need to pursue something that doesn’t change. If we pursue houses, that will wreck us. If we pursue financial freedom, that’s going to wreck us. If that is what we’re pursuing in this life, we’ll never be satisfied. And so how do we teach people to cling to something that is a foundation, something that in repeated in scripture shows of like,” Hey, if you follow this, you’ll still be on solid ground.” So how do we teach them to cling to Jesus, the one who will never fail? Hebrews talks about Jesus is the same yesterday, yesterday, and forever. Jesus doesn’t change. And so how much more comforting it is to cling to someone who doesn’t change?

Andrew Marcus:

That’s a good word. That’s a good word. Obviously, we do that in community, we go to church, we learn, we’re in the Word. I find that I can easily just scroll through news and just… I go down these bad rabbit holes. What advice would you give young people who are just… They’re viewing all the things that are causing the anxiety and causing the fears.

Luke Friesen:

What do you fill yourself with? Because if you spend all your time on TikTok and Instagram or what’s called doom scrolling, if you just doom scroll, of course the natural outcome of that is not going to be “I feel great about myself. I just spent five hours of my life doing productive things.” It’s like, so how do we actually have the spiritual practices of life that show how we cling to Jesus? So I don’t think we talk about the spiritual practices of life, of how do we deny ourselves and follow Him? So do we talk about fasting? Do we talk about the actual practice of Sabbath? Do we talk about Bible reading or prayer or what you said community and fellowship? Do we just have superficial friends? The Lord has been so kind to us, to not leave us alone, but yet so much of the time, we keep isolating ourselves to be alone.

You see, the natural thing for us as people is to what? Isolate, all the time. I see in my high school students, they’re like, “I know I should see people, but I’m just going to sit in my bed and look through reels,” or whatever it is. And so it’s like the spiritual practices are put here for a reason. It’s what is called means of grace, that there’s certain things the Lord has put in place for us to grow in our salvation, to grow in our love for Christ. And yet we think we don’t have to do those things, that it’s just going to naturally happen, being a Christian. It’s like if you want to get big muscles and all you’re doing is watching NASCAR, how does that correlate where God actually gives means of graces? How to grow in your confidence and in your hope in the Lord. Here are the ways.

Andrew Marcus:

And Paul even talks about it often in the New Testament of just relating it to athleticism and it’s a discipline and it’s hard. The spiritual journey’s not just sit and relax. It’s like, no, you got to actually put the effort, do the things to grow. Is there a common inward action? We all also doom scroll at some point. We’re all looking at our phones. Why are we doing that?

Luke Friesen:

We even doom scroll in real life. We just don’t think about anything and let the world just feed us information. I think-

Andrew Marcus:

Why do we do that?

Luke Friesen:

Tim Keller speaks about two things. He’s like, “The root of all sin tends to be pride or fear.” Pride of thinking you’re better than what you are. And then fear of people finding out you’re not as good as what you say you are. And so in the scrolling is the fear or pride of not wanting to put yourself out there, thinking people will reject you. So it’s like, I’m not going to make plans with people. I’m just going to sit on my phone because this is safe. My phone likes me, right? My phone gives me what I want. Where if I go and say, “Hey, you want to hang out?” I could get a no. I could get rejected. And then I find out I’m not as good as what I think I am. So here I am with something that actually fills me and makes me feel good about myself, temporarily.

Andrew Marcus:

And then it actually causes… We talked about this before, the use of cell phones and then the same curve of anxiety and depression and mental health. It’s like they-

Luke Friesen:

There’s a great book book on that called iGen. I don’t know if you guys read the book iGen?

Andrew Marcus:

No.

Luke Friesen:

By Jean… I’m going to butcher, Twange. But yeah, she writes in this generation coming up and how the correlation between anxiety, depression, and suicide all in the rise of when the iPhone got created. And you’re like, “That’s crazy.” I think it just goes over our head, but it’s real. The phone, and this is what I help to try to talk to parents of, be involved with your kids’ lives with the phone. Don’t just give them this black box and then expect these kids to do it well.

Andrew Marcus:

Part of the hardships of 2024, I think is the obsession and addiction with technology.

Luke Friesen:

Yes, totally.

Andrew Marcus:

Because not only is that giving us the dopamine hits and all that stuff, but also the information we’re getting might not be the right information we should be consuming. Imagine if we were in the Word that much or we were… It would be a game changer.

Luke Friesen:

Because with stuff like this, it’s like eating a fish. Fish always have those tiny bones, and the media coming in is like you eating this fish and not picking out the bones. You have to be so discerning when watching things. But yet so often, what’s the reason we watch things? To turn off our brains. “Man, I just don’t want to think right now.” And it’s like this brings hardship because now we’re being fed all these things from the doom scrolling or the reels or the TikTok, whatever it is, or the news. And we’re just swallowing these fishbones and we’re like, “Why do I feel so bad? Why am I so depressed?” It’s like, “Well, you have so many fish bones in you right now.”

Andrew Marcus:

Yep. I’ve been there, man. Especially those tiny bones, bro. I’ve just devoured a fish probably a couple weeks ago and I’m like, “Oh, these had bones in it. This is going to hurt.”

Luke Friesen:

That’s blood in my mouth.

Andrew Marcus:

I’m like, I think it’s rare. Is it not cooked?

Luke Friesen:

No, that’s not fish. Fish don’t hurt me.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so funny.

Luke Friesen:

Sorry, before we move on, that was one of my biggest fears as a kid. My mom was like, “Don’t eat the fish bones. Got to look for the fish bones or else you’re going to die.”

Andrew Marcus:

Okay, but what a great picture of, “Oh, I just want to turn my brain off.”

Luke Friesen:

She didn’t say I would die, but-

Andrew Marcus:

Turning the brain off and just watching. How dangerous are all the things we’re consuming? We’re just having a lot of… That’s a great analogy. Because we’re just taking it all in and we’re not realizing what’s actually harming us. And there’s a lot of stuff that’s online and conflicting worldviews and all that kind of stuff. How can we help equip young people with critical thinking skills and a solid biblical foundation to navigate that?

Luke Friesen:

I think it’s first, as Brendan said, modeling. So are we actually actively pursuing Christ? Are we actively thinking and discerning or are we turning our brains off? So once we start thinking things through, that is going to help us become better and equip them. But then there’s things out there that are great. I don’t know if you guys have heard of a guy named Red Pen Logic. The Red Pen Logic, that guy does great stuff. How do you discern what media is saying and how do you find the fallacies in words? Because so often I’ll get kids talking to me and they will follow incoherent arguments and they’d be like-

Andrew Marcus:

From TikTok.

Luke Friesen:

And like, “This is true.” And I’m like, “Who told you this?” They’re like, “Oh, some guy told me this.” I’m like, “This is not real. This is not…”

Andrew Marcus:

Oh my God. I could go off forever about that.

Luke Friesen:

But this is what we need to be careful of is how do we personally come alongside people and help them think critically through what people post? Do we ourselves think critically of what people post? And so it’s like how do you walk through a logical argument? So apologetics is great for this. There’s great courses you can take at Biola called Stand To Reason by Greg Koukl. Koukl, I think that’s his name. Stand to Reason has been great. Red Pen Logic, you can follow him on Instagram and he gives tools and then even adds curriculum as well. So stuff like that is out there and just being in the Word.

Andrew Marcus:

There’s this hardship with technology, with schools and this misinformation and all these bones. There’s also the hardship of finances and a lot of people that collect breaking news that we just walked through with just what’s happening with jobs and job losses and budget cuts and all that stuff with finances. How can Christians balance a trust in God and his provision in the midst of just this practical financial situation that we find ourselves in?

Luke Friesen:

I think his first is what is the role of money in your life? What is the role? Is it something to be worshiped and sought after? Because Jesus makes it very clear talking about money, what money is and what money is not. And money should not be a master because it’s a terrible master. It’ll have you beaten so, so hard and you’ll have to follow it and you’ll always want more and more and more. So what role does money play in a believer’s life? And I think it’s a tool. Just like anything else God has given you, it’s a tool for His glory, for His kingdom. So finances have been given to us by God for Him. And so if you’re someone who’s like, “I’m in need,” we can rely on God who is good. I think Tim Keller puts it this way. He says “Whatever is needed is never withheld and whatever is withheld was never needed.”

So he takes it from his book, it’s called Romans for You. I don’t know if you’ve ever read those books. They’re fantastic. They’re like commentary, like this big books. And Tim Keller just goes through the whole book of Romans and he just talks about how our God is good and He will always take care of his people. And he takes that also from when Jesus says, “Do the birds of the air care about what they eat.” It’s like, “No, the Father always takes care of them. The lilies of the field, they’re always clothed. They don’t ever worry. How much more does our Father care for you?” Or when their son asks for an egg, who gives that kid a snake? He’s showing how good our God is. So clearly finances are given as a resource for us to give glory to Him. And so if we think about finances not that way, because I don’t think… What we want finances to do is make us comfortable. I need the money. I need that $1000.

Andrew Marcus:

Rent has gone up and food. I need to get food. I need to get this. I just want to live and be comfortable.

Luke Friesen:

Yeah, totally. And I think this is why the spiritual practices are so helpful. When you fast, it’s a reminder of I don’t need food. Technically, we do need food or we will die. But what do I need most right now? I need Jesus. I don’t need financial security. What do I need most right now? If I die with financial security and have no Christ, what is the point? I need Christ, not financial security.

So it’s first, I think, it’s looking what is the point of my finances? What point are these for? And then I think second, it’s like the Lord has given us a mandate from Genesis all the way until Matthew and then into Revelation, until Jesus comes back, he’s given us a mandate to work. So it’s like God has given us a means of grace to work, so we should work. And so if we’re complaining about finances and we’re being lazy and we’re not working, that’s not how… God didn’t make humans to sit around and lounge and do nothing. He’s given them hands and feet and things and a brain so that we can actually, physically, do things in this world.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, it’s good. And I feel like obviously a lot of people are struggling financially and for our house, we’ve kind of changed the perspective of money and of stuff in general. This is God’s dishwasher. “Thank you Lord, that we get to use it to wash our dishes,” and teach the kids all these different things. And so everything we have is not ours and so God will provide us everything we need. I was just going pick up my kid from school and I’m listening to all the conversations of all the people and they’re like, “Oh man, I didn’t realize we were $500 short of grocery bills. How are we going to eat today?” And everyone’s talking about it. Everyone is stressed and anxious and I don’t know how I’m going to put food on the table. Is it because we’ve taken things into our own hands? We’ve gone to the place where it’s like, “This is my money and I can provide food and I can do all these things.” And now things are getting a little dicey and we’ve lost. We’ve just had our security in ourselves.

Luke Friesen:

I think part of it, and it’s a lack of community. I think it is such an essential part for God did not save people. Yes, individually, but he saves them inside the Church. The Church is the vehicle of perseverance to make it to the end. We’re not doing this by ourselves. And so often, it is like, “I’m short $500.” Sure, you might be short, but is God short $500? God has placed people in your life to help take care of you. That’s part of the point of the Church is you read in Acts II is everyone gathered together and gave all their belongings. And so we’re not doing that anymore.

But symbolically, for that to happen, they were taking care of one another. We should be taking care of one another. So something I’ve really appreciated in Northeast, we have this care fund that we just help. Who needs help from our body because we pool our money together and it’s like, “I’m short rent. This circumstance, this circumstance, this circumstance happened.” “Yeah, we’ll help you.” And so we first have to take care of the people who are in our midst. And so are we too prideful to ask for help?

Andrew Marcus:

And it’s humbling, but we have to humble ourselves and say, “Hey, we’re not the saviors of our stories. We’re not the main characters. We’re all in need and we’re all beggars and we all need help.” And so it’s really important. One thing that my wife and I did, we were in a lot of debt and we wanted to get out of debt and we watched Dave Ramsey did that whole thing and got out of debt for the… And the main purpose, Dave Ramsey talks about getting out of debt is not so that you could be wealthy, buy Ferraris and Lamborghinis and have all this extra money so that you could be radically generous. The main purpose of getting out of debt and having savings is to be radically generous. And so what we did was we started a generosity pot and as a family-

Luke Friesen:

That’s so cool. I love that.

Andrew Marcus:

And whenever we find someone, and it’s almost like we keep putting money in this generosity pot-

Luke Friesen:

So is it random? Kids have money and then they’ll just put money in there? Or is it more specific.

Andrew Marcus:

Well, we did it just on our banking, just online banking. We just go, “Okay, we’re going to put this much a month towards our generosity pot.” And then it just made Michelle and I just have eyes to see and try to be really intentionally listening and looking. “Who’s in need? Who needs help? And oh, these people can’t get groceries.” Okay, great. We’ll go with the generosity fund. So here’s the thing, we haven’t done that in a while and I want to get back to doing that. And a lot of people are struggling to even be generous because they can’t afford to get something for themselves, to put food on the table for themselves. So what does the Bible teach us about generosity in the midst of hardship? Because it doesn’t say that we should stop being generous if things are tight. It’s just we’re supposed to be generous as believers.

Luke Friesen:

I think sometimes when we’re thinking about being generous is “How much little can I get away with that I’ll still be okay? Here, I did all my things. I’ve done my mortgage and my car insurance, and this is how much money I have left over and what can I do with it?” And usually by the time we do all our things and we put money in our savings, we don’t have very much money left over, if any. We’re like, I’m actually down 50 bucks, so my savings isn’t going to get that much. And it’s like we don’t incorporate generosity into our budget.

Andrew Marcus:

Actual budget, actually having a generosity-

Luke Friesen:

So that’s what me and my wife we’ve started doing is that’s not even our money. It is just gone. And we’re like, “Wow, things are tight.” And then I remember being like, “Should we reach into some of what we give other people?” And as soon as I said it, I was like, “I am awful.” You know what I wanted? I wanted Netflix. That’s what I wanted. And I’m like, there’s people who we’re supporting people’s ministry and yet I’m thinking about what kind of things are my luxuries in life that I can’t go without? That’s not, that’s not good. I think if we look at our lives, we have many luxuries in western Canada. We have lots. And so I think God has blessed us. We can go without, I don’t know, Gouda cheese?

Andrew Marcus:

Just get the-

Luke Friesen:

Just get the regular cheese, man.

Andrew Marcus:

Come on man.

Luke Friesen:

Gouda is so good.

Andrew Marcus:

So Gouda. Okay, I’m a father of three, man, what do you expect? Come on, you set me up.

Luke Friesen:

You can legally say that.

Andrew Marcus:

I can legally say that.

Luke Friesen:

It actually gets more and more legal as you get more kids.

You get more. That’s hilarious. Full circle.

Andrew Marcus:

Full circle.

Luke Friesen:

I actually wanted to touch point on that community because my older sister actually just had her first kid last year and I am actually an uncle and I’m like, man, I don’t know. First of all, I don’t know how single mothers do it, but let alone people without a family and a church community to support them. I’m like, holy smokes, because they had people, they’re part of this community group and they had friends bringing meals and they’re like, “We’ll babysit, we will take care of you.” This whole swath of church communities came around them be like, “What do you need? We’ll help.”

Andrew Marcus:

We’re here to help. And that’s happening with us right now.

Luke Friesen:

Yeah, that’s so cool. It’s amazing. A meal train or whatever.

Andrew Marcus:

Our church made a meal train for us when they announced that we had a baby and there was a bunch of people who are coming to our house every day that we never met.

Luke Friesen:

Praise God.

Andrew Marcus:

Just like church people. I don’t even know who these people are and they’re bringing me the most amazing meals.

Luke Friesen:

These dang Christians’ being so kind.

Andrew Marcus:

And this one guy came and I was so overwhelmed because he brought ribs, just like amazing food.

Luke Friesen:

Did he bring extra?

Andrew Marcus:

I do have a couple. Shout out, I know you’re watching. He watches the program.

Luke Friesen:

You signed him up next week, right too? You made him like, this is every Wednesday.

Andrew Marcus:

I told my wife, “Can we have another child so that we can get more of this food” She’s like, “Just calm down.” But I know Daniel’s watching, amazing guy, but he comes to the driveway and he has toys for the kids, coloring books for them, all these different things just to bless our family. And I’m like, “Man, I’m so overwhelmed.” He’s like, “What do you expect? We’re the Church.” And he gave me a hug and I’m like-

Luke Friesen:

See, that’s a no brainer for him. Jesus even says, you’ll be judged on how you treat your brothers and sisters. If we can’t even take care of our own people. How are we supposed to be a witness to the world? If someone looks onto the church and being like, “They can’t even take care of themselves. Why would I ever want to be a part of that?” We should be such a radical, generous community that people are like, “How do I get in there?” The fact that people look at the church and being “Bigots,” or whatever kind of thing you want to say. You’re like, “How are we actually portraying ourselves as Christians?”

Andrew Marcus:

How are we living this out?

Luke Friesen:

So it’s like there’s so many things that we can do to help one another. One of my buddies, young adults, married, totaled his car. His fault, so not getting a bunch of money for it and in one week, in just our small friend group, we got a $1000 together for him to get the car fixed or whatever. And none of us had any money, but yet for some reason the Lord provided in that care. And so it’s like this radical generosity.

Andrew Marcus:

And we got to do it together. And this gives me two stories. The first one, another family who just came yesterday, last night, they have six kids and they have the seventh on the way.

Luke Friesen:

Is that the dream? [inaudible 00:23:34]

That’s the dream, right?

Andrew Marcus:

That’s the dream, man.

Luke Friesen:

Think of how many rib meals that would be.

Andrew Marcus:

Think about the ribs.

Luke Friesen:

That’s four more.

Andrew Marcus:

The question is, are they doing it for the ribs?

Luke Friesen:

No, I’m just kidding, obviously.

Andrew Marcus:

No, shout out to the Martin family though because I love them dearly. But they came to the house and one kid brings a tray of food, the other kid brings toys, other kid brings a gift for the little baby girl and dessert. They have a family of seven to feed and they’re still coming to our house and giving us.

Luke Friesen:

It’s so cool.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s just like we have no excuse. Oh, we have one kid. Things are tough. It’s like then you see that, it’s like no matter how many kids or how tight things are or whatever, we can still be radically generous. Second thing that I think of, at my old church, we did this analogy. The pastor was talking about the importance of community and how we’re supposed to do life together. And he got our drummer to come and lay down on a table on the stage, put out a table. He lays on the table and he gets 12 guys to come around. And he says, “Okay, I want everyone to just put one finger on him and we’re going to lift him with one finger.”

So all the guys put one finger and I’m like, “There’s no way this is going to work.” And he counts to three and we literally, the guy gets air, he gets air. I used my pinky. I remember I used my pinky and it was close to his buttocks, so I feel bad about that, but I remember vividly. It’s PTSD.

Luke Friesen:

You didn’t need to tell us that.

Andrew Marcus:

I didn’t need to tell you that. Mateo. I’m really sorry. Anyway, so I had my pinky. It’s Mateo. Anyways, so we counted to three. He’s my drummer. I played music with him for 10 years, so I love it. He was okay. Anyways, so we counted three and he gets air and it’s just like we all make a little effort, but when we do it together, you get the 1000 bucks. When you do it together, you get meals. When you do it together, we take care of each other. And it’s like we can’t do that on our own.

Luke Friesen:

We actually can’t persevere to the end on our own. The Lord has given us the Church. How cool is that that he gave us a body to be with and to support and to be around. Perseverance is impossible.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s impossible without each other. So as we wrap up, one last question for us. How can Christians actively seek opportunities, believers, young adults, to bring positive influence and bring about positive change in their communities? Responding to challenges with the spirit of love and compassion and justice?

Luke Friesen:

I think it’s first think, where is there need? What is the need actually around me in my community? And then if you’re like, “I don’t actually see a need…” There is a need. There’s always need in this world. So ask the Lord. “Lord, help me see the hurt. Where is there need in this world?” And then second is like, what are your gifts and abilities

Andrew Marcus:

We’re so self-centered and self-focused. We only care about our own needs and our own wants and what we need help with. We need to turn that around and say, “Okay, what’s going on?”

Luke Friesen:

And that’s why we look at need first. Because if we just look at what our gifts and abilities are, we can just be like, “Well, that’s not for me. I can’t do it.” Where it’s like-

Andrew Marcus:

Look at the need first.

Luke Friesen:

The need first. Because if you look at your gifts first, you’re going to be very shoehorned into only certain things. Be like, “I’m not that gifted, I’m not good.” So many people is like, “I’m not gifted with kids.” What do you mean you’re not gifted with kids? Sure, there’s people who are very gifted with kids, but I’m pretty sure you can have a conversation with a 6-year-old. You can hang out and play with a 6-year-old. So it’s like-

Andrew Marcus:

You don’t need a spiritual gift.

Luke Friesen:

Exactly. Do you not plan on having any kids? This would be great for you to learn. Because that’s what people tell me, it’s like, “Oh, Luke, I can’t do high school ministry terrible with high school students.” It was like, okay, so I know you have kids. Are you just going to ignore them? Those four years? “Kids, this is not my gifting. Go to somewhere else.”

Andrew Marcus:

Oh my goodness, someone else can help you through the high school. I love that though. Look at the need first. And if you can’t see a need, there is need. Ask God, what is the needs around me? What are the needs around me? And he’ll show you. Well Luke, thank you so much for joining us on today’s program.

Luke Friesen:

No, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Andrew.

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out THE INDOUBT SHOW on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcast. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out indoubt.ca. We have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.

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