Ep. 69: Evangelism DO’S and DON’TS w/ Gloria Furman

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, AudioWorld, it’s Andrew here from THE INDOUBT SHOW. We got a wonderful program today. We have Gloria Furman, she is all the way in Dubai, and we’re talking about evangelism, what it looks like to go out and make disciples the right way. Is there a harmful way? She’s going to give us some practical tips to just make sure that we are equipped and ready to share the good news with all those that God puts in our spheres of influence. We hope you tune in and enjoy this great conversation.

All right, we have Gloria Furman. How are you doing today, sister? You are quite far away. Tell us where you are and what you’re up to these days.

Gloria Furman:

Yeah, great to be here. We are in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Here we are in Gulf Standard Time, significantly farther ahead-

Andrew Marcus:

Yes.

Gloria Furman:

… than Pacific Standard Time. I can assure you Monday is fantastic. You’re-

Andrew Marcus:

I was going to say spoiler alert, it’s going to be a great day.

Gloria Furman:

Spoiler alert in the future. It’s going to be a great day. God is soft.

Andrew Marcus:

I love it.

Gloria Furman:

Jesus is on his throne.

Andrew Marcus:

Come on.

Gloria Furman:

All things are going to work together for your good.

Andrew Marcus:

Amen.

Gloria Furman:

Beautiful. My husband, Dave, is a pastor. He helped plant Redeemer Church of Dubai about 14 years ago here in Dubai, which is a very big multinational melting pot. In our church, there are about 50 or 60 nationalities, which makes it, as people say, a little taste of Heaven to worship together on Sundays with the nations. That’s what we do here.

Andrew Marcus:

Where did you guys move from?

Gloria Furman:

Dave and I met in an evangelism class.

Andrew Marcus:

Okay.

Gloria Furman:

I know, I’m not saying, but-

Andrew Marcus:

For all those singles who are listening.

Gloria Furman:

Yeah. Looking for like-minded wife or like-minded husband, evangelism class just might be the place. I’m serious, not serious.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah.

Gloria Furman:

We met in an evangelism class in Texas. I was still in college and Dave had just graduated. We were both taking this evangelism class at our local church. We met, found out we were so like-minded.

Andrew Marcus:

Cool.

Gloria Furman:

He wanted to go and I wanted to go. We went to seminary in Dallas and then at the end of seminary, had our first child, and then we did church planting trainings and other kinds of trainings, and then moved to Dubai in 2008.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow. It’s cool that you guys met at evangelism classes. What we’re talking about is evangelism and it’s like, okay, so clearly you are very passionate and so is Dave, which is super awesome. We were just talking about this in the office, just this idea of sharing the Gospel, sharing the good news with those around us, and how there’s potentially good ways to do it and then maybe some harmful ways or ways that ways that we shouldn’t be doing it. I thought, oh, let’s just connect with you and talk about it.

What are some foundational principles even just to start, that we should use maybe in an approach when we are doing evangelism? Take us back to your course. No, I’m just kidding.

Gloria Furman:

Back to class.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, we’re going back to class.

Gloria Furman:

Hopefully, when you remember all of these foundational things, you’ll avoid doing it the wrong way, sharing the wrong things. Remembering all of the foundational truths I think would be where you’d want to spend most of your time. A lot of evangelism classes might give you tips and advice for how to approach someone and friendliness and how to ask good questions.

Those are fantastic, spend time on that. I think like the scientists who study counterfeit bills, they study the real deal way more than they study the counterfeit so that you can recognize the counterfeit when you see it because you’ve studied the real thing so intensely. Starting with the Gospel, you need to be nails on what the Gospel is. There are so many things about the Gospel, so many questions to ask about it that you need answers to.

I think we need to know who’s given us this task. We need to know what’s the task. We need to know the content, the message, when was the task given? Where are we supposed to carry this message out? What does it look like in your everyday life? What is the power that’s available to you? What’s the effect that you’re hoping for? What’s the intended outcome? What’s the benefit for the person hearing your message? What’s the benefit of you sharing the message on whose authority is the task carried out?

There’s endless, endless questions we could ask about the Gospel. Knowing what it says, the message that we’re carrying out would be of first importance. That is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was crucified for us in our place to pay for our sin, so that we could be forgiven our debt against the Holy God, the God who made us to whom we owe everything, everything which includes everything. He didn’t stay dead.

He rose from the dead for our justification and now offers us freely this gift, a gift of grace that we can have by grace through faith in him, by which we become new creatures and enter into the new creation with him, the first fruits, and then we follow after our elder brother, Jesus. We need to know the Gospel inside and out if we want to share it effectively and share it in such a way that someone would understand who God is, what he’s required of us, and what Jesus has done to fulfill that requirement, and how we can attain this free gift.

Then moving on from there, as we get put on our chief cornerstone and they’re built into this temple with him, what does it look like moving forward? The answer to that question, I’d say know the Gospel inside and out. Study it. Turn it all around in your hands. Read scriptures from all these different angles. Ask all of these questions about the Gospel and then go out and share it.

Andrew Marcus:

So good. I think oftentimes we miss that foundational part where we don’t know how to articulate it well, and so when an opportunity arises, we fumble or maybe some people get a little overwhelmed, oh my goodness, they’re ready to talk but I’m not ready to… They try to gather their thoughts, but you’re saying learn it, know it, study it, live it, memorize it, go from all kinds of angles.

Get in the scriptures, maybe talk to your pastor at a local church or just whatever questions you have answered and learn it so that you’re ready whenever the conversation comes, you don’t have to fumble in your mind through the story, it’s just there. A lot of us, we know the story and we’re familiar with what happened and we’re familiar with the task, who gave us the task, and what the message is, but we just don’t know how to verbally articulate it. Do you think it’s important that we practice?

Gloria Furman:

Oh yes. Practice on yourself. I practice on myself regularly throughout the day. It is also one of the driving forces for sanctification. When you’re faced with some temptation, you just tell yourself, “The tomb is empty. Jesus walked out of the tomb. My sin is paid for. Why would I want this when this is the kind of thing that put Jesus in the cross?”

Rehearsing various aspects of the Gospel and preaching it to yourself is going to overflow naturally into your life as you are in the checkout line at the grocery store, when you’re at the soccer match, football, soccer, whatever you play. It’s going to be on the tip of your tongue, because it’s in the tip of your heart, if that’s a thing, because you’ve been meditating on it.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s just really cool that you say that, don’t be afraid to rehearse. Some people might think that sounds weird. It’s like, no, it’s not actually. You’re just preaching to yourself. That’s so good. We know the message, we practice it, we rehearse it. Is there a way that maybe you’d give some wisdom once we have the foundation and this truth and we know how to present it?

I feel like a lot of people in today’s culture would feel that it could be pushy or overbearing or it could just be offensive or whatever, which it is an offensive message, but how would you help young people effectively share their faith or give them some pointers that won’t feel overbearing or too pushy?

Gloria Furman:

That’s a fantastic question, and I think the sentiment behind that question is, you don’t want to needlessly offend and get in the way of someone hearing and responding to the Gospel. Essentially what we’re doing when we share our faith, is we’re introducing someone to our friend. This is Jesus. Come meet a man who’s told me everything I ever did. That’s what we’re doing. We want to introduce people to Jesus. If we’re putting ourselves in the way so that they can’t see him clearly, then we don’t want to do that. That’s the last thing we want to do. The fear of being pushy is one of the bigger fears.

A second bigger fear would be awkwardness. I find some people are hesitant because they feel like spiritual things are awkward. The answer I would give to both of those hesitations, I don’t want to be pushy, I don’t want to be awkward, is the same thing, the same answer, is when you are entrenched in the Gospel and meditating on it, preaching it to yourself, enjoying it, reveling in it, never forgetting where you’ve come from and what the Lord has purchased for you, then those things are going to be so sweet, so winsome, so genuine, so sincere, that any appeal that you shared with someone coming from your heart, from that kind of heart, a heart that is humble, repentant, grateful to Jesus for everything he’s done, those appeals are not going to seem pushy or awkward.

I think people can sense true sincerity and they respect it. If you’re the opposite of that, suppose you have something fantastic and you’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s my new whatever. It’s nothing.” People know like, “Wait, no, that’s really great. Why are you downplaying that?” So if you can communicate out of the sincerity of your heart because you’ve been soaked in the truths of the Gospel, they’ll see that, appreciate that, and respect that.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good. That is so good. We had some people over that we haven’t seen in a long time over the weekend and they’re non-believers. I just said something that maybe you can help coach me, because I feel like it was a mistake. We were just talking about… They just openly admitted that it just seems like the world is ending and just chaos and all these different things and wars and rumors and wars, and we were just talking about just end times just came out of our conversation.

They’re nonbelievers, and I just said, “It seems like the end is near and I’m okay with that. I’m okay.” They both perked up and was like, “What do you mean the end is near? What’s going to happen?” They just started, “What do you mean?” I realized, “Oh, well I believe in Jesus and I believe that he’s coming again.” I walked through the Gospel story. It just felt like it wasn’t the best approach because it was like, “Hey, I’m going to be okay. You’re maybe not going to be okay unless you consider this.”

I think it was with grace and humility and I was just sharing my thoughts, but what are some maybe pitfalls or things that people do that might not be the best approach? I mean, you see all these things back in the day with billboards in front of churches like, “Turn or burn” or it’s aggressive language. I felt like I didn’t do that per se, but I felt like, oh, maybe there would’ve been a better approach than saying, “Hey, I’m going to be fine, but you’re not going to be fine.”

 That just seemed like they were intrigued, and thank God the conversation went well. It was like, “Oh, so I have to do this?” We walked through what it looks like to be saved and put your hope in Christ. I told them, “The only reason why I’m saying this is because I love you and I love you guys. I genuinely love you, and it would be mean for me if I didn’t tell you this.” Are there some pitfalls or maybe common mistakes that Christians do, maybe like the aggressive, “Turn or burn” or the way we communicate that could maybe deter people from the Gospel?

Gloria Furman:

Yeah, I don’t know what you said, if that was ultimately super helpful or unhelpful. The Lord knows and he will do what he wills through those things. I do think when people are presented with the need and they can see the need, then they start asking questions. Sometimes asking questions is better than dishing out answers.

Because if someone can walk home with a question they didn’t have before, maybe a question that’ll keep them up at night, maybe a question that will nag them for a long time, maybe a question that will drive them to look for answers, or ask someone for answers, or read about the answers, or come back and call you, sometimes those questions are more effective than, “Here’s everything I know.”

Andrew Marcus:

That’s really good. That’s really good.

Gloria Furman:

The Lord knows what he’s going to do with all the seeds that you sowed. You sowed seeds and God can grow them. I wouldn’t be discouraged about that. It does sound like you took advantage of an opportunity to share about Jesus. What the pitfall is that came to mind right away, is not speaking. So often I kick myself like, “Oh, I should have said this. I should have said that. I’m going to go back.” I think of all the things I should have said, and then I don’t open my mouth.

One text that really encourages me to open my mouth when I have opportunities is in John chapter 10, where Jesus says, “I have other sheep and they will hear my voice.” He talks about his other sheep and how they will be compelled to follow him. They’re out there. When I remember he has other sheep, I don’t know which ones, I will share, because the Lord has directed my feet to wherever, to this doctor’s office, to this hallway, to this parking lot. Jesus is the one who’s directing my feet. I think I’m running errands, but he’s sending an ambassador.

When I remember that he has other sheep, that encourages me to open my mouth, and Lord willing by his grace, avoid the major pitfall of not opening my mouth at all.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, that’s so good. I always remember this, a friend of mine was telling me, because we handed out these Gospel tracks to this company that was painting our house. They didn’t speak English, so I found one in their language. He was just a Christian brother at our church, he just laughs and said, “All those painters thought they were just coming to paint your house.” I think about that often, like you’re saying, going to the grocery store or the doctor’s office or standing on the lineup.

We just think, “That teller is just thinking that they’re going to help me with my groceries today.” It’s like, that’s funny. This painter, or this pizza delivery, “Oh, he thinks he’s just giving me pizza.” It’s like we have these opportunities everywhere. We don’t know where the sheep are. That’s so good. We just need to be aware and be confident to share no matter what. Even if you think it’s “awkward” or if you think it’s… You just do it and God uses it for his glory.

In your context in Dubai there’s a lot of different cultural differences and even in Canada here, there’s a lot of different cultures, different faith backgrounds, et cetera. How do you navigate the sensitivities when you’re connecting with people of different backgrounds or different faith backgrounds when it comes to evangelism?

Gloria Furman:

That’s a great question. You definitely want to be informed of the things that you can be informed about. Great examples of that are dietary things. That’s a big deal. You wouldn’t want to bring a plate over to your neighbor’s house of something that they can’t eat or would feel very awkward about accepting. You want to be informed about some of the bigger cultural propriety things in terms of how they relate to each other in a polite way.

For the next level cultural sensitivities, I recommend asking excellent questions and not putting people in a box. If you’ve met someone from this town that you meet a second person from that town, they might not have been raised with the same worldview. You can say that, “Oh, I have a buddy from your town and he said this and he thought that and believed this. I thought, that’s interesting. Do you agree? Are these things that you hold in common? Or what about you?”

Use your curiosity about their culture and their worldview to learn more about your friend so that you can meet them where they’re at. There may be some cultural things that you’re not aware of, maybe that they’re not aware of, and your good questions can help bring out some of the presuppositions that they have about who we are, who God is, what he requires of us and where we’re all going.

On the other side of the coin, I would encourage people not to feel overwhelmed and get so hung up on, “I don’t know, I just feel so nervous and insecure. I’m just not sure if I know how to approach a person. It’s so different.” Don’t get hung up on those differences to the point that you close your mouth and you won’t go knock on the door. Remember the things that we all have in common. That really helps a ton. If you look back through scripture and you see all the things that all of us have in common, you’ll be encouraged to go talk to somebody, because you know that there’s common ground.

In Romans one, we know about God. It’s plain to us. His invisible attributes, his eternal power, his divine nature are clearly perceived by everybody. We also know human life has dignity and purpose. There’s a reason that we believe these things. It’s something we have in common. We also know something’s wrong. Whether someone thinks their biggest problem in life is that they don’t make enough money, or that their health isn’t so great, or world peace, whatever they think is the biggest problem, we’re all aware that something’s wrong, things are not right.

You can scratch these itches whether you have the same culture as someone or if you’re very familiar with them or even a little bit familiar, we can talk about those things. We all want real love. Nobody wants fake love. Instinctively, we all know that we’re facing judgment. The Bible teaches that. It also teaches us that we all know that this is not all there is. He’s written eternity on our hearts. We all know that. We’re drawn to glory, we crave glory, we adore glory, because we’re made for glory.

We also know there’s a higher law. Romans two talks about this higher law. We’re all religious. Even if someone says they’re not religious, it’s a religious statement to say, “I’m not religious.” Sin is anti-faith that produces anti-works. We are all religious. There’s so many things that you can start from in a common ground and talk to people even if you’re not fully aware of what all of their cultural sensitivities might be. Asking good questions, I think, will help you talk about those things even more.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good. Even just the way you unpack common ground, it’s just there’s so many bridges that we can build. Maybe as we wrap up, talk about prayer. People talk about preaching the Gospel and sharing the good news. Talk about the significance of prayer when it comes to evangelism.

Gloria Furman:

It is crucially significant. We’re sharing a message that is described as the power of God for salvation. Milton Vincent says in his book, A Gospel Primer for Christians, that nowhere else in scripture did they describe the power of God. They don’t say volcanoes are the power of God or anything like this, and all creation is the power of God. It says the Gospel is the power of God. It’s God’s Gospel and he is the one who is going to make it effective in someone’s life. He is the one who pries open spiritually blind eyes and gives them new life.

Creation is God’s job. What you’re asking God to do when you pray for someone is to make a new creation. Prayer is crucial in the work of evangelism.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good. That’s so good. When we’re talking with other people with different faith backgrounds or different cultures, is it okay in conversation if we critique or challenge someone’s belief system in the conversation? How do we do that graciously if we should do that?

Gloria Furman:

That’s a great question. I think when we share the Gospel, that is essentially what we’re doing because we’re not born with this worldview that, “Oh, I’m a sinner and God is holy and he has sent his one and only son to pay for my sin on the cross. He was innocent, I was guilty. He traded it. His righteousness is now mine. By faith, he’s risen from the dead. I’m going to walk in the newness of life because he’s alive forever.”

We’re not born with that worldview. Anytime you share the Gospel with someone who hasn’t heard it before, you are essentially challenging their worldview by peeling away all the things that they thought were the thing. We all revere something. GK Beale says in his book, We Become What We Worship. He says that we revere something in the world and begin to resemble that thing in the world, and it’s the exchange of idolatry.

When we begin to revere God, we begin to resemble God. What is happening when someone is born again is they are being remade into the image of Christ. What is the process of sanctification other than we’re becoming more and more like Jesus, we’re looking more and more like him, and then finally when we see him, we will be transformed. Spurgeon says in his little book, when Christ returns, he says near the end that Heaven is somewhat like a hall of mirrors, where if you stand in a hall of mirrors and everywhere you look, you see yourself from a different angle.

The new Heavens and new earth, it will be like a hall of mirrors in a sense that everywhere you look, you see people in Jesus image, all of us radically diverse people reflecting our Savior perfectly. That’s what we’re asking God to do when we share the Gospel with someone and they repent and believe. It’s not a worldview that we’re born with. And yes, it is essentially in conflict with every other worldview.

Andrew Marcus:

When we share, we just share graciously and humbly like you mentioned, because no matter what, there will be challenge and critique.

Gloria Furman:

Yes, and just like they weren’t born knowing about the God who made them, neither were we. There’s nothing we have that we haven’t been given. Carry that about with you, that sense of humility. Nothing I have was mine. It was all given to me all by grace. Where were you when God intervened in your life? Remember that, and let that humility keep you there at the foot of the cross where you invite other people, “Come on, let’s come sit here.”

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good. Oh, that’s so good. I feel like we get saved and then we leave the foot of the cross and we think we’re… No. Stay humble, humble yourself and remind yourself of that moment and stay there and invite people there. That is just absolute gold. Thank you so much for your time today, Gloria. Thank you for spending time with us and just sharing your heart for evangelism. I know people are going to be so blessed and there’s so many good things to take away from this conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insight and we just pray you have a good evening.

Gloria Furman:

Thanks. Thanks. It was a joy. I love talking about this. I could talk about evangelism all the time.

Andrew Marcus:

Come on. I love it. Thank you so much.

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out THE INDOUBT SHOW on YouTube, Spotify Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcasts. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out, Indoubt.ca. We have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.

Hey, INDOUBT AudioWorld, we got something exciting happening. June 8th, 7:30 PM, Winkler Manitoba at Pathway Community Church. We are going to be doing THE INDOUBT SHOW live. It’s going to be amazing. We have Dr. John Neufeld with us from Back to the Bible Canada, and we’re talking about the Christianity and culture debate. How do we fit in? How do we stand out? How do we deal with politics? It’s a very timely conversation. It’s going to be an amazing night. You can go to Indoubt.ca for more information.