Ep. 002: 11 YEARS OF INDOUBT w/ THE OG’s

Andrew Marcus:

Hey, this is Andrew Marcus. Listen, I am so honored that God has given me this opportunity to lead and direct the INDOUBT ministry. My vision is to create a safe space where we can navigate through the questions of life, faith, and culture. These are very interesting times to say the least. And so, it’s our desire to resource you with truth, so that you’re grounded on scripture. Oh, and we have a ton of fun doing it. So tune in every Monday, enjoy the show.

Well, here we are. I am so excited. We have all the hosts, minus one. Joshua Scott, shout out to you if you’re watching. We miss you. We hope you’re doing well. He’s out of country right now. But we’re here, we’re here together. We’re celebrating 11 years of INDOUBT, so, let’s go around the room here. You can quickly introduce yourself.

Ryan McCurdy:

Okay.

Andrew Marcus:

And maybe tell us when you started and when you decided to quit.

Ryan McCurdy:

Okay. Okay, okay.

Andrew Marcus:

And actually tell us why. I’m just kidding.

Ryan McCurdy:

Well, I was… My name’s Ryan.

Andrew Marcus:

Right.

Ryan McCurdy:

And I was the INDOUBT host back in 2019.

Andrew Marcus:

2019, okay.

Ryan McCurdy:

And I was here in an interim time, and I was in between Isaac and some of the new guys that have come on in the last number of years. Yeah, that’s kind of my story-

Andrew Marcus:

Because you were double-dipping with, you were working at a church the same time I did.

Ryan McCurdy:

I was working at church and trying to make it balanced and work. And I loved INDOUBT and I love what it’s about. And so, it seemed like a natural fit. So yeah, that’s how it all went down.

Andrew Marcus:

Cool, cool. Amazing. We got you brother, the OG.

Mike Cumiskey:

Oh, boy.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, man. I am so pumped that you’re here, actually.

Mike Cumiskey:

All right. I’m excited to be here. Name is Mike Cumiskey. I started, oh, boy, well, INDOUBT’s been around for 11 years now, and a couple years before that, I started with the organization. Yeah, this is coming full circle for me-

Andrew Marcus:

Amazing.

Mike Cumiskey:

as we, yeah, see where the ministry has grown and the lives that are impacted as a result. Yeah, excited to be here. So over 11 years.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, amazing.

Mike Cumiskey:

So, I, hopefully you weren’t looking for an exact answer.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, that’s amazing.

Mike Cumiskey:

Plus or minus.

Andrew Marcus:

And what are you doing now?

Mike Cumiskey:

Principal of a local Christian middle school.

Andrew Marcus:

Cool. Amazing. That’s amazing, that’s awesome.

Isaac Dagneau:

Cool.

Andrew Marcus:

We got you, bro.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, yeah. So I started in 2014 and I left in 2018 to do some local church ministries. So I’m pastoring a little church there. But I’ve been, yeah, those are four awesome years here in INDOUBT, yeah. It’s been great.

Andrew Marcus:

And I got to say, a lot of our listeners actually still think that you’re the host, because of all the re-airs.

Isaac Dagneau:

Right, right, right.

Andrew Marcus:

So, it’s like let the record show he actually left. Just kidding. I’m just kidding. No, but we are so happy for you being such a gift to the ministry. And then we got over here, we got Daniel.

Daniel Markin:

Hey, guys. Been with the ministry now, what, four years?

Andrew Marcus:

Four years.

Daniel Markin:

Almost going on four or something like that? Yeah, it’s… So, I came on with Isaac and Joshua, and it was an interesting time, because you brought on three hosts at a time. And it’s basically like a host cage match to see who would last the longest. And I’m happy to say I’ve lasted the longest, out of the hosts and stuff, and I still kind of do it from time to time. Have I quit? No. I tried to quit multiple times, but they just kept sending me interviews. So I’m here.

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, my goodness.

Mike Cumiskey:

That’s awesome.

Andrew Marcus:

But we’re going to dive into some stuff. I wanted to maybe even just talk briefly, because I know you were even just asking, Mike, before we even pressed record, just about the history of it starting. So I’d love to just hear what was the thoughts and the process of like, “Hey, we need to have a resource.” And what was going on at that time, if you remember? I know 11 years ago’s a long time. I don’t remember what happened last week, so if we can try to get there, that’d be awesome, to just hear the foundation of the last 11 years.

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. So yeah, INDOUBT, over 11 years. I came out of youth ministry as an associate pastor at a local church. And when I joined on with Back to the Bible Canada, we could see the change that scripture was having in the lives of people across Canada. But we also knew that the church was starving in terms of its youth leaving in droves, it seemed, after high school, and young adults. Not so much turning their way from the church, but walking through the desert and not really having a guide and not being grounded and rooted in scripture.

And we said, “How can we do this? How can we take the richness of Bible teaching and put it into a medium where youth can experience the word of God daily?” So we understood at that time that what we know to be true is, if you’re reading and reflecting and responding to the word of God, it’ll change your life. It’ll change your perspective of who you are as an individual and your identity in Christ. It’ll change the decisions you make on a daily basis. So we said, “How can we get the word of God to them in a way that is relevant and real in the mediums that they use?”

And so, back in that day, apps were a big thing, and so we thought, “Maybe let’s start there.” And so we built INDOUBT with an app that would push out portions of scripture and short little reflections on that scripture that was relevant to them. And they could choose the time of day they got it. And we started there. And so, the idea was just put breadcrumbs out there for youth and say, “We know that they need the word of God. Let’s figure out a way that we can get it to them in a way that’s relevant for them.” And then rolled out after that.

Andrew Marcus:

Amazing.

Mike Cumiskey:

I mean, the idea of INDOUBT in its name. Because we wrestled back and forth with, “What do we call this thing? And where it really came from is going, kids, when we talk to youth, when they leave the church or leave high school, they have doubts about their faith, right? So their faith has been their parents’ faith or a very surface level faith for years and years and years. And so, they leave into this huge world and they go, “Wow, do I actually believe what I’ve said I believe to be true all this time?” And they start to doubt. And we know that the best way to encounter that doubt is to give them the living word.

Andrew Marcus:

Amen.

Ryan McCurdy:

Amen.

Mike Cumiskey:

So, that’s where it came.

Daniel Markin:

Amen, that’s awesome.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise God, man. And I love that that’s the foundation today. We talked about, last week was our first show, and we talked about just this idea that we’re married to the mission. The mission will never change. We want to give gospel truth and have a foundation of biblical, a biblical perspective for people to engage with culture and life. But the medium sometimes changes. So then, we’re dating the medium, but we’re married to the mission.

Daniel Markin:

Amen.

Andrew Marcus:

So that never changes. So, I’d love to get to know all of you a little more. And so, what we’re going to do, and we’ve done this before in the past. I’ve listened to some old episodes, so it’s kind of cool, where we have a mug, you guys have a mug, we have a mug. There’s some questions in here. But why don’t one of you pick up a question.

Isaac Dagneau:

All right, here we go.

Ryan McCurdy:

Come on.

Isaac Dagneau:

All right. What is a good book you’ve been reading or have read that you’d recommend? Cool? Oh, man. Okay. So there’s this book I’m reading right now, and it’s by the author Nancy Pearcey. It’s called Love Thy Body. And I’m not sure, Daniel, do you know, have you guys interviewed Nancy Pearcey?

Daniel Markin:

I haven’t interviewed her, but she’d be amazing to have on. I know she’s like… That book is unbelievable. I’ve quoted from it. It’s like the Magnum Opus of gender and the Bible.

Mike Cumiskey:

Wow.

Daniel Markin:

And sexuality and-

Mike Cumiskey:

Totally.

Daniel Markin:

It’s really, really good.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah. It’s very good. And I would just recommend that, too. Especially if you’re listening and you’re… like, Daniel just said, what basically Nancy Pearcey does, which I find is so helpful, is that she, in a very, very clear way, she’s an amazing teacher and writer, so it’s not over your head at all. And that’s saying something, because I’m not very smart. So I was reading it, and basically she helps you see the undergirding worldview that holds up the major issues of our day, euthanasia, transgenderism, homosexuality, sleeping around, hookup culture, abortion.

And she basically was able to present that undergirding worldview, which is super simple. And then once you get it, it’s like, “Oh, my goodness, this all makes sense. And then obviously being a Christian, she helps you see what are the ways that we can approach these, the people that are stuck in this worldview, see the worldview for what it is, which is very dehumanizing, even though they think it’s all about us.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yeah, totally.

Andrew Marcus:

Anyways, it’s very, very helpful. So that book. And then a book that I always recommend is George Mueller’s autobiography. He was a Christian man, and he set up orphanages in Bristol. And he decided to do this whole ministry to prove to the world that you can get everything you need just by prayer. And he never asked for money for anything, he did it all by prayer. And he helped hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kids. And it’s an amazing autobiography. So, those are two I would recommend.

Mike Cumiskey:

Cool. Amazing.

Andrew Marcus:

Let’s pick another question. We’re going to get Daniel to pick a question here.

Daniel Markin:

Awesome. Are you ready? In all your years at INDOUBT, what has been the single funniest memory that you have? I have one of the funniest endings to an interview ever. And I won’t name who it was, but basically, we were talking to this person and this guy, Chris, you’ll remember this. He was just so polished, so good at what he does. Boom, boom, boom. You’d ask him a question… And it wasn’t a canned answer. It was just like, he is so good at talking and answering.

And usually, when you get to the end of a podcast, we’ll say, “Hey, thank you for being here,” and stuff like that. And then I’ll give a hand signal to Chris and be like, “Hey. Hey, we’re done. Hey, thanks for being on the program. Thanks for joining us. I thought it was awesome.” We’ll just, we’ll chit-chat for a little bit.

This guy, he basically finished and I’m like, “Well, thank you again for being on the program.” And he goes, “Thank you for having me. You know, do a great job as a host. All the best.” And he just hangs up right there. And I look at Chris, I was like, “Well, did that just happen?” But it was the most… I wasn’t even mad. It was the most smooth ending. The whole thing was so smooth, and he just smoothly ended our call.

Isaac Dagneau:

Oh, that’s awesome.

Daniel Markin:

So, I think we’re still on good terms with that guy. I think he likes me.

Andrew Marcus:

He keeps ignoring my emails, but that’s fine. It’s unrelated.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. I keep tweeting at him and he keeps…

Andrew Marcus:

Ah, I love it. That’s amazing. A couple more questions. We’ll get Ryan to do one and we’ll get Mike to do one, but you go first.

Ryan McCurdy:

Share a memory of a moment with INDOUBT that impacted you deeply. Andrew?

Andrew Marcus:

Oh, you know what? Since this is my second episode… But last week doing an interview with Dr. John, we talked about just diving into the seeker sensitive movement. And we talked about how we see this mass exodus of young people, and we connected the dots to realize, you know what? He always talks about, what you win them with is what you win them to. And so, we see a lot of church just preaching stuff besides the gospel almost. And so, we’re looking through Matthew 7, the wide and narrow path. And that was just really impactful to have him unpack Matthew 7, unpack the narrow gate, the wide path, what’s happening in our culture.

It was just eye-opening to me. I just felt like I’m seeing Matthew 7 right now. And it was just a huge, just… It kept me up at night after we talked, because even looking at verse 13 and 14, we talked about the wide and the narrow path. And then verse 15 gives the reason why the path is so wide and why it’s so easy, because it says, “Beware of false teachers who look like…” When the ravenous wolves, those are the ones we were saying, “Hey, come to this path.” And just saying things that, itch our ears.

And so, it was just very, very impactful for him to walk through how we can protect ourselves as young people-

Ryan McCurdy:

That’s awesome.

Andrew Marcus:

… and how we need to get back to the Bible. So that was… I mean, out of the two episodes we’ve done so far-

Ryan McCurdy:

Yep, that’s the deepest.

Andrew Marcus:

I mean, there’s not a lot of impact here. I’m just kidding. But it was just such a blessing to hear him unpack. He’s such a phenomenal Bible teacher. So I really enjoyed last week.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yes, sweet. It’s really good.

Andrew Marcus:

What about you?

Ryan McCurdy:

Oh, man, that’s a great question. I’d need to think a little bit more about that.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, okay. No problem.

Ryan McCurdy:

Wow.

Andrew Marcus:

You, too?

Mike Cumiskey:

You let him off just like that.

Andrew Marcus:

Well, I don’t want… You know what? Think.

Mike Cumiskey:

Think. There you go.

Ryan McCurdy:

I mean, I could pull something out where I just think… In terms of… Now, I’m going to reach for something. No, I think the structure of being in a routine of having conversations with people who have an angle or have a wisdom in an area of, maybe it’s a specific study. Like Stephanie Gray, right? Abortion, and like… Talking with her was just like, oh, it’s not just an opinion.

This is a well thought out base. There’s a basin of resources that she is drawing from to say, this is why the biblical worldview, and this is why… When we look at scripture and it forms our thinking on life. This is why we think the way we think or the way she thinks, and why the countercultural view, the biblical view, is actually really solid and worth standing on.

So I mean, there’s lots of those conversations with people like her. That would be one I think was a meaningful one for me. Just hearing her. I think that topic that I’ve witnessed, discussed in discourse. Abortion in culture is so polarizing. And for somebody like her to just step in and say, “Okay, let’s look at the facts.”

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah, that’s huge.

Ryan McCurdy:

Let’s look at the perspectives. Let’s not get all like, whoa. Let’s just enter into this conversation with a level head and a grounded heart in Christ. And I think she did that well.

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah, that’s huge.

Ryan McCurdy:

And so, that was one I really appreciated. Yeah.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s huge. Didn’t let no one off the hook. There you go.

Mike Cumiskey:

So the thing that resonates with me the most, at least, and this has been a memory actually, if I’m honest, has stuck with me time and time again, about God’s faithfulness. And when you are searching and very much needing him to come through in a big way that he, surprisingly or not surprisingly, does it time and time again. And so, even before INDOUBT, we were thinking about the idea. The funds weren’t there to start the ministry yet. And we figured everything we needed, from cameras to audio equipment, to just marketing and getting the ministry going, we knew as an organization that this is the direction we ought to head. We just weren’t sure how we were going to get there.

We knew that $50,000 was going to be the number. So that’s how much it was going to take. And I had been, because we were a much smaller team then, doing some development with the organization as well, and had cultivated some relationships out of province. And I met this one guy, came to faith early in his life. Totally left the faith. Got into oil and gas industry, went wayward. And now, he was mid-60s, had one kid from an ex-wife that was totally estranged to him. And somehow, him and I struck up a conversation, because he started giving to the ministry, and he’s like, “The young people just desperately need to hear the word of God.

“The word of God’s transforming my life. I sit in church when I’m in town, I see the young people coming and going, and they need to hear the word of God.” So we kept on this conversation going. And I remember sitting and having dinner with him, and Ben was there, and Steve were there, and we were all having a conversation about who he is and what he does for work. And this time came where I’m like, “We need $50,000 to start INDOUBT. Is that something that you could help us with?” He’s like, “Done.”

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Mike Cumiskey:

Sorry, come again?

Andrew Marcus:

Wow.

Mike Cumiskey:

We should have taken you to a nicer restaurant. But it was like this aha moment of going, holy cow, God is working in the lives of other people that we’re just beginning to know and have brought them to the ministry to start something that we have no idea what its reach would be, but knowing that the reach needed to happen. And God’s like, “I got this. Don’t worry. You just show up and I’ll do the rest.

Wow.

Daniel Markin:

So yeah, that one really sticks with me.

Mike Cumiskey:

Cool. Wow. Praise God. What a testimony.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah.

Mike Cumiskey:

Amazing.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s awesome.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, there’s lots, but I’ll just do one, because I know we’re short on time here. But a lot of the work at INDOUBT, at least for me in the four years was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. I’m writing a lot of stuff, having interviews with these people, and like you said, Ryan, that’s really powerful. That people that know their stuff and the Lord’s just speaking through them to you, and I felt so blessed.

But there’s one time we did a fundraiser here locally in the lower mainland in BC, and there was a fellow there who had some younger girls. And after I gave the presentation about INDOUBT, we talked in the parking lot and he just started talking about his own girls, and just his own fears as a dad about… And I don’t even know if where they were at in their faith or if they were fine or whatever, but he just had some anxiety and some fear, and he just was able to tell that to me.

And we were able to minister. So I know INDOUBT’s targeting young people, but here, I was able to minister to this dad who was just anxious about his own girls. And that was just, that stuck with me, just stuck with me. I was like, oh man, this is so good to be able to minister and pray in the parking lot of this fundraising banquet hall or whatever. It was really good. But so many great moments.

Ryan McCurdy:

Praise God.

Andrew Marcus:

Praise God. It’s awesome. Daniel.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah. The thing that’s probably most impactful to me is every time I do interview, we always, I’ll talk with the guest at the beginning and say, “Hey, here’s what our program is. We do a podcast, we also do a radio show.” And actually, when I tell them about that, it warms my heart every time. Because with the radio show, there’s such an unknown. Like, who are we reaching? Who’s driving their car across the prairies, and turns on their radio and hears the gospel maybe for the very first time? And that to me, every time I think about that image, it’s one of the reasons I’ve loved being a part of INDOUBT, and I want to keep being a part of it.

I’ve been with it because it’s… What if I get to heaven one day and someone walks up to me and he says, “Hey, I heard a program you were doing with this ministry called INDOUBT. And it was the beginning of me beginning to follow Christ.” That, to me, is just the unknown. And one of the beauties of this ministry is you just don’t know who you’re going to impact. And so, in a sense, you’re by faith, we’re sending it out on the radio, and yet it allows for the Lord to do some great work and some great ministries. So literally, every time we do an interview, I’m reminded of that.

Andrew Marcus:

Cool.

Daniel Markin:

And it’s really been impactful to me.

Andrew Marcus:

Wow. Praise God, man. Praise God. It’s so cool that we all have just been a part of this, and we get to see the growth and the change and the lives change. And we get excited about the future. All right, so we’ll get Mike to pull out the last question totally randomly.

Mike Cumiskey:

Why is INDOUBT such an important ministry today?

Andrew Marcus:

That’s a good question. Daniel. How would you answer that?

Daniel Markin:

INDOUBT is an important ministry today, because we’re willing to talk about things that many people are not willing to talk about, I think. Our higher-ups have a real… We’re under the banner of Back to the Bible Canada, and we know we talk with Dr. John a lot and we learn a lot from him. And there’s a no-nonsense attitude with the team who are like, young people need to hear this truth and you need to say it. Because they need to be able to make a choice on this. They need to be able to make an informed decision as best they can on these issues of life and theology and walking as a Christian. And so I’ve always appreciated that about INDOUBT is the willingness to say hard things and bring on guests who will then say hard things and challenge us.

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah, it’s huge. It’s huge.

Andrew Marcus:

Isaac, what do you think?

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, yeah. It’s important because God is important. I don’t just say that kind of just slightly, but I’m just like, people, young people, are bombarded by all these issues today. We’ve talked about some of them, mentioned abortion. We’ve talked about some other issues. But these are issues that they’re hearing in college, they’re watching on Netflix. These are just the things, and we realize that yes, these things, God speaks into them, but there’s something behind all these things and it’s Jesus, King Jesus.

So INDOUBT is very unique in that we bring up these things, like Dan was saying, like Daniel was saying. We talk about these things to get past them to God. So people are hearing about them, so let’s talk about these things. And not just how does God influence it? Let’s actually get through them to the one. So, that’s why a lot of interviews, I know what, that I would do. I would just ask the person, “Can you just share the gospel? Can you just tell the truth about Jesus?” And they’ll do that. And I’m like, yes, we’re getting to the actual core, and that’s why I think INDOUBT is so, so essential.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, that’s amazing. Awesome, man. Yeah. Mike, how do you answer that?

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah, I think certainly in my line of work, and because I’m apparently an old guy now.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, right.

Mike Cumiskey:

And so, I try to bestow my wisdom upon… What I see a lot in youth and young adults now is this wayward thinking of everything’s based off of feeling right? “Well, I feel this way, so I’m going to search out things that can affirm my feeling in this area to make me feel good, search out something that I want to hear about myself, as long as I believe it to be true about myself, or it makes me feel good inside.” What I like about INDOUBT and what it’s, has started to be and always been since, which has actually formed around the ethos of what Back to the Bible Canada is, is the word of God brings life and truth.

And when it’s delivered in a way that is uncompromised, it transforms lives. And it’s not about a feeling. Feelings are fleeting. And so, sometimes, I need something that can penetrate my feeling and tell me truth where I can’t discern truth somewhere else.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s so good, man.

Mike Cumiskey:

And so you strip all that away and all the things that they encounter in the context that they’re living in other ways, and you deliver them the word of God, in ways that are relevant to them, whether it be the topic or the medium. So yeah, that’s why it matters and it matters a lot.

Andrew Marcus:

It’s huge. Such a good answer. Ry guy.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yeah. It’s a great question. And I think when I hear that question, I think about why does it matter to the young adult that’s listening? And I think if I were… I’m a pastor first, and so, if I was sitting across at a coffee shop from somebody, I would say to them that life is complex. The life that we live, the world that we live in is complex and we need a guide. We need to know the difference between right and wrong, and not even know in terms of knowledge. I think that that’s one of the big challenges of today, is that there is so much information.

There’s an information overload, and there’s so much of how do you grapple with these things? Where do these land, and what category do I put this in? What hierarchy of value is this to me? And I think there’s a longing for, or there’s a vacuum of wisdom that needs to be shared. And I think what some of the others have already said is just, we need to know what scripture has to say, and we need to let scripture form us and shape us, mind, heart, body, soul, our whole sense of being. I think that’s one of the passages that, in my own life I’ve been working through is like, okay, what does it actually truly mean to love the Lord your God, wholly heart, soul, mind, strength?

What does it actually mean? We talk about it. It’s great commandment. What do we do with that? And it gets lived out, the answer to that is it gets lived out in the everyday, in the mundane, in the exciting, in the normal, in the monotonous. And we need wisdom. And we can’t expect to know it all. Young adults can’t expect to know everything all by themselves. And so, it matters that we have engaging conversations with people-

Andrew Marcus:

Amen.

Ryan McCurdy:

… that can relay truth more than knowledge. Just the wisdom of how to live a God-honouring life. So yeah, that’s kind of where I’d go.

Andrew Marcus:

No, that’s such a good word, Ryan. And I feel like, just like everyone said, I feel, honestly, the same way. I just feel like the world is just bombarding us with their truth. And I feel like a lot of us are just getting distracted by some of it. And we just need to be grounded on absolute truth. And I just think it’s important for us to talk about the things that are hard.

I mean, you read through scripture and a lot of the stuff that’s happening in culture right now, you read through the Bible and it’s almost like the Bible’s very offensive and it’s very opposite of what’s going on. And so, a lot of people have shied away from that to not be offensive. But I think with grace and truth, we could be able to teach scripture and just help people graciously, but truthfully. And I think-

Ryan McCurdy:

Can I say, and confidently. And confidently. I think there’s a lot of gap in saying, “This is what I believe. I’m okay if you don’t believe it, too.” I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And if you don’t believe that, I don’t need to cater my whole life around what you believe. I can still stand confidently, like what you’re saying.

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah. That’s good. That’s huge. Because I feel like… And we’re not going to cancel you. We’re not going to… I know there’s cancel culture where it’s like-

Ryan McCurdy:

We love you. Yeah. Absolutely.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s okay.

Mike Cumiskey:

Yeah. We’ve talked, I mean, my own conviction is, we used to believe this to be true, that it’s this balance of truth and grace. And I think that that’s actually a very worldly way of diluting the gospel is it’s, no, God calls us to be all truth and all grace-

Andrew Marcus:

All the time.

Mike Cumiskey:

… all of the time.

Ryan McCurdy:

Oh, it’s only through His Holy Spirit that we can do that.

Andrew Marcus:

That’s huge, that’s huge.

Ryan McCurdy:

No, it’s not cancel culture, and no, it’s not loving and compromising the gospel. It’s finding a way to love through the gospel, with the conviction of God’s truth, and then saying, “I’ve done my part, Holy Spirit. You got to do the rest.”

Andrew Marcus:

Yeah, that’s huge man. That’s so good. That’s so good.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yeah. I mean, this is the stuff that I, this is why I think INDOUBT is so important. I can just get, we can talk for hours, I’m sure the five of us. This is so good to say, yeah, how do we love other people when they have, maybe they have nothing but negative things for us. What does it actually mean to embody that? And there has to be this self differentiation to say, I’m okay, because I’m with God, and God has me. And so, if you hate me or if you hurl insults at me, I mean, we’re not looking for that, we’re not trying to promote that or stoke that-

Andrew Marcus:

Of course, yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:

… but Jesus says, “Hey, if you love me-

Andrew Marcus:

He promises

Ryan McCurdy:

the world’s not going to love you back. And a lot of Christians that I know, I just, they want to be liked. And it’s okay not to be liked. And if you’re listening to this, it’s like, if people persecute you on the count of Jesus, that might actually be okay.

Isaac Dagneau:

It’s a blessing.

Andrew Marcus:

And it’s what we’re called to. That’s how, that’s the way it’s supposed to be.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yes.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:

Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, the ministry of INDOUBT is sweet. I could talk about it for a long time.

Andrew Marcus:

Come on, bro.

Ryan McCurdy:

Cool.

Andrew Marcus:

Well, unfortunately we can’t.

Ryan McCurdy:

I know, I know. I know.

Andrew Marcus:

But I do appreciate all of you being here. Thank you so much. And I appreciate all that you’ve done in the ministry over the last 11 years. We brought you all here to celebrate the 11-year anniversary, but also, I’ve only been here for two weeks, so I want to know how to do my job. So if you can just give me some wins after the camera, just tell me how to do it, that’d be great. But I’m grateful that you’re all here. Thank you so much, Josh. Again, we love you. Wish you were here with us. Daniel, thank you for joining us as you did via technology. We appreciate you.

Daniel Markin:

Pleasure.

Andrew Marcus:

And thank you for tuning in.

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. For more great content, check out the INDOUBT show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you stream your podcasts. We hope you enjoyed it today. Feel free to check out indoubt.ca. We have some great resources available to you. Have an awesome day.