Ep. 161: Jordan St. Cyr

Kourtney Cromwell:
Welcome to the indoubt Podcast where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s word. For more info on indoubt, visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Ryan McCurdy:
Hey everyone, so good to be with you. My name is Ryan and I’m really excited about this episode ahead as we have singer/songwriter and worship leader Jordan St. Cyr with us. I got to chat with him about how he got to where he is now and how in the midst of what he’s doing to achieve balance and to maintain balance with family and work and as he tours and records across North America. Jordan was one of our performing artists at our recent event in Winkler, Manitoba called indoubt:live + in concert and it was great to have Jordan be part of our team. And even today, off air, Jordan said that one of his favourite songs is “Lay it Down,” so I have a clip for you and then once you give it a listen we’ll head into the conversation that we had.

Jordan St. Cyr:
(Singing)

Ryan McCurdy:
So today with me on this episode of indoubt, we have a special guest from Canada who’s a musician and worship leader. His name is Jordan St. Cyr. Jordan, great to have you with us.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Dude, thanks so much for having me. This is great.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, looking forward to this, and I want to ask you… I want to start by asking a little bit about who you are for those of us listening or tuning in. What are you about? How did you get to where you are? What’s your story?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah, in like a couple minutes or less, right?

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, sure, yeah, couple minutes.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah, the whole thing.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah. You know what, I grew up in a small town, Niverville, Manitoba. When I grew up it was about 1,200 people. We’ve grown to about 5,000 people now, so it’s small-town prairie living. A lot of trades, a lot of farmers and we love it. It’s a great place to raise our kids. I’ve got four kids now, an amazing wife, Heather, and we love where we live. As far as music goes, music was always in our house. My dad was a songwriter and performer. Both my brothers, performers and songwriters. I grew up playing songs in church and did that in youth group. Eventually, kind of just kept going with it. Led worship on Sunday mornings and the fire just didn’t really die. It just kept with me.
Did a short stint in YWAM where God just continued to reveal his desire and my desire. How are we gonna connect? How are we gonna keep growing together? And it was through obviously quiet times of really just pouring out my heart to him and hearing his voice through my music. That’s always resonated with me since I was really young up until this point. Music has definitely not been an easy road but it’s been the road for me. It’s just God has put this desire in my heart to connect with him through music but then also inspire people through music to live their best life and to hope for more, so, yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, that’s cool. So you grew up in the church.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah, absolutely.

Ryan McCurdy:
Family was going to church and stuff like that in a small town.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
Now here’s one thing that I find really intriguing, because you used the language, “The fire stayed alive.” You maintained that even as a young worship leader, maybe in youth group or whatever, that you kind of kept the course and you kept close with Jesus. As you were saying that, I was thinking about Katy Perry.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
I know Katy Perry. She actually grew up in the church herself and she grew up in youth group and she actually was involved in music and worship music, and then she decided to walk away from her faith and start her own thing with music, and I find it very interesting that often times that story gets a lot of popularity, a lot of publicity of, “Oh, here’s the reason why people leave.”

Jordan St. Cyr:
Right.

Ryan McCurdy:
But I’m intrigued because you’ve said how music has been a tool that has connected you to God and so I’m curious for your experience, you said it hasn’t always been easy. What have some of those challenges been? Because obviously, I would assume that there would be a temptation to try and do your own thing apart from God and say, “Could I try and make it this way or have this type of success outside of the church?” But clearly hearing from your story, there’s a connection to, “Hey, no, I want to bless the church. I want to be part of what God’s doing here. I want to use this.” And so, yeah, curious if you could speak to some of that.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I never had this amazing conversion experience. I wasn’t four years old and I accepted Christ. It was always a thing. We grew up in a household that always believed in God. We always believed that we weren’t the centre of our own story, you know what I mean? Like in our family growing up, God was always central, so, therefore, there was nothing to leave. There was nothing to grow out of because this is the way it was, you know? God was central, so for me with music… This is just music to me. Music is a gift from heaven. Again, when you talk about music in terms of marketing or demographics, I get that. You want to write music for people outside of the church or whatever, but I think for me what it came down to is this is the gift God has given me to connect to people. Whether it’s people in the church or whether it’s not, the message of hope is music to me. So that’s what I do.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, and I think even hearing you say that you’re saying along the lines of, “Well, my faith, my walk with God, knowing Jesus was central,” so there is no room for you to do something apart from him.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Pretty much.

Ryan McCurdy:
Right?

Jordan St. Cyr:
That’s exactly it. This is just … It’s infused. It’s in the fabric.

Ryan McCurdy:
Totally.

Jordan St. Cyr:
It’s the way it is.

Ryan McCurdy:
Totally.

Jordan St. Cyr:
You know? So, yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
I would venture to think that not a ton of culture in Canada right now, especially non-Christians, but there would be people who are maybe even in the church who would say, “Yeah, I go to church and I’m a Christian but Jesus is an addition to my life.”

Jordan St. Cyr:
Right, right.

Ryan McCurdy:
He’s on the side.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Right.

Ryan McCurdy:
What I’m hearing you say is that “No, no, no, he infuses everything. He’s in everything.”

Jordan St. Cyr:
That’s right.

Ryan McCurdy:
“He’s part of my life. He’s part of my music.” So, what has that process been like for you? Like writing music with that perspective? And I would say as a follower of Jesus myself, as a pastor, I’m like, “That is an amazing perspective, that, hey, God is central and he should be.” That’s the invitation actually of following Jesus. What’s that been like for you with writing music? How has that perspective influenced how you’ve written your music, how you’ve led worship and performed? What’s that like for you?

Jordan St. Cyr:
That’s the big question. Again, I think a lot of it is just knowing who you are, you know? And taking on the identity that God has given you. When we stop looking at God as a two-dimensional thing… Like I believe in saying, “God, you’re first, but it doesn’t quite do it for me anymore.” It’s like if you look at a dartboard and you’re like, we’re always trying to hit the bull’s eye and get that perfect score, and then we realize, well, God isn’t the bull’s eye, God’s the entire dartboard, you know what I mean? He’s everything, so when I write, when we start, it’s like there’s this understanding that he’s already everything. So everything we do is gonna fit within these parameters, you know?
It’s all gonna point to him, and I know… I don’t want that to sound new age-y or whatever, but when he’s Lord of your life, he’s Lord of everything and yeah, so when we write, the perspective is like, “What else is there to talk about if it doesn’t point to Him?” Because there’s so much more out there that we can say because he’s infinite, so…

Ryan McCurdy:
So what would somebody be able to find in terms of your message and your themes in some of the music that you’ve already written? And what are some of those tones that would be there?

Jordan St. Cyr:
I mean, in the music I have out right now, we were very intentional to bring forth just this feeling of joy. Really just joy. I am a singer/songwriter kind of by trade and it’s very easy for me to write the dark, sombre melody and my wife would often look at me and say, “You know what? You’re singing these songs that are amazing about this hope and this joy but you’re not smiling. Do you believe this?” It was like she said it enough times it finally clicked, and so with the songs that I have out right now, it was all about I want to sing my future joy.
So if I’m gonna be singing this song a lot, I want it to put a smile on my face and a smile in my heart and I think if the joy of the Lord is our strength, when we go into these communities where the churches are running on fumes and they just need that extra little boost, I want these songs to help them. I don’t want them to kind of put all the attention on me and soak it up for myself, but when we go in, may we be an inspiration and a light to them that they’re doing good work and to keep going, so, yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
Would you say that’s the goal of your writing and your music?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Absolutely. I think it’s definitely a facet of it. A lot of what I’m writing now is… I think points to unity and bringing us together and a lot of like Ephesians 4 kind of stuff has been in my heart to say, I think because personally, I’ve just had to lay down so much stuff. Like if we’re gonna get along and if we’re going to do something great or if we’re gonna start some sort of revolution and do something big, we can’t be the centre of this story. Christ has to be the centre, so what does that look like? In Ephesians it just kind of lists a lot of things of what we can do to do life better and to live more like Christ.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. So you’ve performed at a number of places. What would be something that as you think about music and as you think about people who engage with your music, what is, even as you’re praying, as you’re writing your music and as you’re looking forward to performing at different venues all over the place, what would be something that, as you’ve written and as you’ve performed, you really hope that people would connect with? I ask this question from the perspective of what is it to you that people that you know and people that you’re writing to are really longing for? Is it this joy you’re talking about? What’s your sense on what people are needing in worship and in music?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Well, I think ultimately we are all trying to be the best versions of ourselves. Whether we know that consciously or subconsciously, we’re all on a path to, you know… The human experience seems like we’re trying to get to this perfect thing and ultimately I feel what God wants of us is to be real and authentic in who we are right now. For me, when I write, my greatest desire and greatest joy would be if people are walking out better husbands, better wives, better brothers, better sisters, because to me that’s foundational for everything and how we live, and if we can be better at that, we’re gonna do amazing things. For me as a father, if I succeed as a father and not as a musician, I’ve won the day because I know that’s the most important thing because my kids are the next generation of what’s to come, and if I raise great kids who make wise decisions, I think we’re all gonna be better off.
So if people can leave with this mindset that we’re all in this together and that we’re all here to support each other, that would be my hope for them.

Ryan McCurdy:
So, curious for you, what would be the places that you draw on for inspiration?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah. Well, what I always tell people who are up and comers or looking at writing better songs, it’s like your greatest assets are your eyes and your ears. Just remain open to what God is showing you through the world around you because real life is happening right before your eyes and real life are the best songs. The best worship songs have stories of real life. You know, when you look at ‘Miracles’ by Chris Quilala and the story behind that, or ‘Blessed Be Your Name’ by Matt Redman, look up those stories behind those songs. Those aren’t just generic cliché Christian sayings. They became that, but they came from a deeper story. Something real.
So for me as a songwriter, as an artist, I listen to everything but I try and dig a little deeper as to why did they say that? There must have been a reason. Yeah, some songs are just kind of written off the cuff and like, “Oh, that’s cool,” but I think the songs that stand the test of time, there’s a deeper underlying meaning that supports it.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, so as a songwriter, maybe there’s individuals who are songwriters or aspiring songwriters even listening to this conversation. What role for you as a songwriter does scripture play in forming your perspective and even the lyrics that you have?

Jordan St. Cyr:
It’s a lot. I mean, if that’s where the truth, is, we need to be spitting out that truth. A lot of the songs I have out right now are… They’re just very scriptural, very inspired by what’s in the Bible. My help comes from the Lord. Just, again, it points back to him hopefully in almost every line, you know? Because we can do the mainstream pop thing or whatever. We can do that, but there’s a reason why we’re doing what we’re doing and I think when we write with scripture, again, I think we’re doing justice to this genre.

Ryan McCurdy:
What would be something that would be on your heart to share? What do you feel like God has burdened you with that you’d like to share with maybe young adults who are skeptical or struggling or doubting? How would you encourage them and how could they look to your music as a resource?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah, I think we all go through these seasons of doubting, not knowing if we’re called to do this. Am I good enough? At the end of the day, I think you have to separate your calling from the desires of your heart, and our calling is to glorify God, to enjoy him. That is our calling. Now, God has given us these desires and I think we so often get them confused. Even though our desires give him glory, I do not gain my identity from my desires. My identity is in my calling and when I do that, it takes the weight off of feeling like I have to perform or live up to these desires and become successful and win awards and all this. That’s all great but if I separate them, my mission stays the same whether I feel good or I feel bad, whether I’m winning the day or I’m losing the day. My calling is to glorify him and I can do that right now.
So I would say try not to get caught up in this mental game of comparison. Try not to let your emotions lead you. You know, our heart is deceitful above all things. God’s there for us. He knows the desires of our hearts and this season of doubt, this season of disbelief or whatever you’re in is the testing ground. It’s there for a reason and you’re walking through it and God’s letting you walk through it for a reason because he wants to refine those desires and give you even more.

Ryan McCurdy:
Now, have you ever walked through something like that and without maybe even getting in too much detail, are there places in scripture that you go to, you turn to in terms of connecting with God and in different seasons of life, and so maybe somebody would say, “Yeah, I’m walking through doubt and music is a place for me to connect with God. When I intellectually am having a difficulty understanding the complexities of the nature of God and who he is, my soul finds delight in him through music,” and so I guess one of my questions would be where would be where you go to, where you turn to find that place?

Jordan St. Cyr:
You know, I feel that when we are in these seasons of not knowing, we often turn inward and we try and solve that problem on our own, and a lot of where God has led me is into service, so instead of focusing on the problem, instead of trying to figure out my direction, my purpose, my calling, all this stuff, he’s like, “How about you serve these people over here?” You know, get your mind off yourself. So, whether in Matthew it’s about serving the least of these or taking on the big… the great commission kind of idea, it’s like God is calling us, drawing us out of ourselves. Open yourself up to the people around you and I guarantee you if you’re struggling with purpose in your life, go out and serve. Go into your local church and hand out coffee. Start talking to people. Your purpose will be defined, I believe, a lot quicker.
So in those seasons for me, it’s about how do I serve my wife better? How do I serve my kids better? How do I be more present? Maybe I’ll go shovel the neighbour’s driveway. You know, whatever it needs to happen, but do the tangible steps. Don’t get stuck in your head or in your heart. Move to action a little bit.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah.

Ryan McCurdy:
What are your thoughts on somebody like a Lauren Daigle who begins in the church and although her music now is still in consistency with a lot of biblical themes and stuff like that, begins to do more of her own thing where there’s a bit of controversy on that, right?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Right.

Ryan McCurdy:
So what are your thoughts on somebody like that? Kind of what we were talking about, like the potential to sacrifice values and beliefs and try to take it mainstream, and like you said, be hip-hop, cool and be on the mainstream. What are your thoughts on that?

Jordan St. Cyr:
I think we gotta be more loving and understanding that while she is an entity, a big one, she is still a person and she is no different than you or me trying to figure out what tomorrow looks like, and I think you’ve got to give her some grace and you’ve got to cut her some slack and she’s got to figure it out, but at the end of the day, we can all pray for her and we can all pray that she’ll use her influence to better our world, you know? And draw people to God. But I don’t have an answer for you. I just know that at the end of the day, she is a person and she is a name, and we like to kind of put this label over somebody like that, and I think that’s where the danger lies, because, at the end of the day, that’s God’s daughter too, and so how do we then talk about her as if God’s listening in the other room, kind of thing.

Ryan McCurdy:
Totally. That’s great, that’s great. So then, here comes another question then that would flow out of that is, you know, how do you find that balance? That balance of whether when you’re working or you’re touring and you’ve got that work/life balance and you want to maintain a healthy relationship with your family. Like you said, you’ve got a bunch of kids but also a healthy, vibrant relationship with God. What’s that like for you?

Jordan St. Cyr:
You know, I heard it said best by Bart Millard of MercyMe, and he basically says there is no balance. You basically have to tip the scale in favour of your priorities. Like what do you value most? So at the end of the day, if there is an amazing gig opportunity but my family needs me, my family wins. The way I say it to my wife is like you are first and God is at the centre of all of this, so what do we need to do? She holds me accountable to birthdays. She holds me accountable to important dates that I need on the calendar that I need to be at home, but I think it’s important that, yeah, whether you’re a busy musician or a busy podcast host or whatever it is in your life, I believe we fill up all our space.
All of our time is full, whether it’s going to work, spending time with family or Netflix or church or whatever, we’re gonna use all the time, but we all have the ability to tip that scale in favour of what we value most and so I think that’s what we have to start doing.

Ryan McCurdy:
So with that in mind, what are some things in the future that we can expect from Jordan St. Cyr?

Jordan St. Cyr:
I think I can say this, but basically, I’ve accepted an offer from a label in Nashville called Full Circle Music and it’s with a good friend of mine, Seth Mosley. He was a producer on For King and Country, Skillet’s last record, High Valley. He’s done some amazing work, so I am so excited and thrilled to say that I’m gonna be doing an album with him soon and so we’re gonna be talking about what that looks like and so that’s coming out. We’ve got an offer from a Nashville based booking agency that we’re looking at, so a lot of exciting things for 2019 and I’m just really excited to get some new music out and, yeah, that’s my main goal.

Ryan McCurdy:
Is there anything else that you’re like, “This is on my heart to share. This is something I want to add,” something that we haven’t brought up or talked about?

Jordan St. Cyr:
Yeah. I would just say that God’s faithfulness isn’t contingent on our faithfulness. He is faithful to us as his kids and him as a father no matter what we do, and as we understand that, I believe that allows us to reciprocate that faithfulness, to be that for our families, but ultimately his faithfulness is 100% rock solid guarantee. He is there for us. He loves us and no matter what we do, it’s there for us and I think if we can just know that more each day, I think we’ll be just so much better off for it.

Ryan McCurdy:
Jordan, it has been great having you with us today on In Doubt. Looking forward to some more music coming from you and thanks for joining us.

Jordan St. Cyr:
Thanks, take care.

Jordan St. Cyr:
(Singing)

Ryan McCurdy:
Thank you for joining us on this episode of indoubt with Jordan St. Cyr and that was a clip from his song, ‘In My Lifetime.’ You can follow Jordan on social media @jordanstcyr or you can check out his website, jordanstcyr.com, where you can find out more about his upcoming tour stops and if he’s coming near you. Through listening to Jordan’s story and the words he has for you, we hope that you have been encouraged from this episode and that you’ll join us again next week.
For the last couple of weeks, we’ve featured a two-part conversation with Rosaria Butterfield where we touched on the importance of finding your identity in Christ and today with Jordan we touched on the same thing in this conversation and next week we go deeper into your identity, talking with Andy Steiger about value and dignity in human life. Right now I actually want to take a moment and read a passage from scripture from the book of Ephesians 3 where Paul gives a prayer for spiritual strength.
Starting in verse 14, “For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of His glory, He may grant you to be strengthened with power through the spirit in your inner being so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith that you being rooted and grounded in love may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think according to the power at work within us, to Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus through all generations forever and ever, amen.”

Ryan McCurdy:
indoubt exists to bring the Good News of Jesus into everyday issues of life, faith and culture. We seek to encourage you and equip you to engage with the tough questions of our time in a way that honours God. If indoubt has encouraged you today and you’re passionate in helping others grow in the truth, we want to welcome you to partner with us financially. As we continue to provide resources, we depend on the generosity and partnership of people like you to help communicate the Good News of Jesus to a world that needs him and stay connected to us for next week’s episode as we talk with founder and director of Apologetics Canada, Andy Steiger.

Kourtney Cromwell:
Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes and Spotify or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.