Ep. 200: Let’s Celebrate!

Kourtney Cromwell:
Welcome to the indoubt Podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s Word. For more info on indoubt, visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Kourtney Cromwell:
Hey everybody, this is Kourtney, and I’m so excited for this episode of indoubt as we celebrate 200 episodes. It feels so good to be part of indoubt, and I’m really proud of what we’ve been able to accomplish through these 200 episodes. To those of you who’ve been with us from the start, or if you’ve just started listening, and honestly, everybody in between, we just want to say a big thank you. We really appreciate you. The encouragement we receive from our listeners, really makes a difference for us.
This is a special episode and we’re doing it a little differently. Isaac, Joshua, and Daniel are here, and I put a bowl of random questions in front of them to answer, so I’ll let them take over, and I hope that you enjoy episode 200.

Isaac Dagneau:
Well, thanks for joining us for Episode 200! On this episode, we get to answer some questions about life, faith, and culture in sort of a rapid fire, shotgun approach. We have a bowl here full of various topics, which we’re just going to grab, and just kind of go from there, and see what kind of wisdom, maybe, will come from it.
Anyways, I’m Isaac.

Joshua Scott:
I’m Joshua.

Daniel Markin:
I’m Daniel.

All Hosts:
And we’re your indoubt hosts.

Isaac Dagneau:
Thanks, Daniel.

Joshua Scott:
That was free.

Daniel Markin:
That was free, and that’s now the theme song.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yes.

Daniel Markin:
So our producer, Chris, is going to put that in front of every episode now, of indoubt.

Isaac Dagneau:
But make sure that’s – is that public domain, because I don’t know, if you do past 8 notes consecutively something else, then it’s not ours.

Daniel Markin:
It was actually in 7/8 timing, so it was not quite …

Isaac Dagneau:
Oh, okay. Daniel, what’s been going on in your life?

Daniel Markin:
Well, Isaac, thank you for asking. My life has been very busy, as of recent. And it’s a similar place than Josh, but as of this recording, as of this moment, I am engaged. But by the time it is released, this episode, or depending on when they release it, there’s a very good chance I will be married. And so my last 10 weeks, we did a 10 week engagement, and it has just been a lot of wedding planning.

Isaac Dagneau:
Ten weeks.

Daniel Markin:
And so, my life has become a lot of just wedding planning, which has been a really crazy time, awesome time, and I’m very, very excited. It’s the final countdown now. My fiancé, Elise, and I, are really excited about everything that’s happening. So, as far as my life, that has been very much on the top shelf. Something that I’m constantly… That’s maybe the wrong analogy, hey? The top shelf?

Isaac Dagneau:
I don’t know.

Daniel Markin:
It’s on the main shelf.

Isaac Dagneau:
The main shelf.

Joshua Scott:
Top priority.

Daniel Markin:
If you were to ask me what I’m doing with a lot of my time, it’s just lots of little… So many little details. Oh my goodness. That you never think about. Planning a very big day.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s really cool.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah. Are you going to ask me what about my life?

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, we’re all equal here, right?

Daniel Markin:
You guys, we’re all just friends, having a conversation.

Joshua Scott:
He just looked at me like I should say something, so I’m going to.

Isaac Dagneau:
Okay.

Joshua Scott:
Yes, so I’m in a very similar boat to Daniel, although, I haven’t been engaged for 10 weeks before we’ll be getting married, me and my fiancé Chelan. But, by the same time that this episode’s aired, I too will likely be married. Not after 10 weeks, but after a 6-month engagement, so that has been busy. It’s been a pretty interesting season of life for the last few months. I’m slowly transitioning out of the church that I’m working at right now. In the next couple weeks, I’ll be stepping away entirely, and pursuing a new ministry position somewhere. So, it’s a little strange to be working in a church, and everybody’s full drive ahead, and I’m there, still pushing and working and developing things. But, at the same time, knowing that in a couple of weeks I’m stepping away. So, that’s strange, because I’ve been at this church for three years, and they’re very much a family to me.
Yeah, getting married and then all that comes with that transition. And graduated from seminary in September, so thankfully that’s off my plate, all that homework. But yes, it’s been a good season. I’m excited for what’s ahead. God has proven Himself time and time again to be faithful. And actually, it has been such a great blessing to be in this phase of waiting, and seeing where God is calling us and directing us. And it has forced us – God has forced us to learn to be patient, and that has been I think really healthy for us both as a couple because I think for the rest of our lives, we’re going to be battling the desire to want to know, and to want to go, but to just follow God’s lead. Yeah, so that’s kind of where my life is at right now.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s good. Yeah.

Joshua Scott:
Isaac, how about you? What’s been new in your life?

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. Well, by the time this is recorded, I will be married, just like I am today, still married, which is awesome. So much fun. However, I was actually just talking to you earlier, Josh. If we want to keep it in the whole marriage arena, this past Saturday, I officiated my first wedding. So, that was really fun. And it was an awesome couple from our church.
My wife and I … We told them, they’re young obviously, like my wife and I. We told them, “Are you interested in premarital counseling?” And we said, “Hey listen, we are happy to do that with you, but you have to recognize that me and my wife, we’re only three and a half years into this. And you’re not going to get the same kind of wisdom as someone who is much older.” But I said, “But hey, we can recommend you to another couple that we trust, and we love, and will do a great job. Or we’re happy to do it too.” And they’re like, “We want you guys to do it.”
So, it was an awesome experience to be able to sit down every Friday night for a little while. And it was really beneficial for my wife and I, as well. We all chatted about, what does the Bible say about marriage, and the roles of a husband, and the roles of a wife, and all this stuff? And it was just really great to be able to sit with them, and learn about that.
And then, to do the actual wedding, which obviously, we really tried to glorify God in it all, in the midst of friends and family, that did not know the Lord. So, it just becomes a great testimony, as many funerals and marriages and other kind of celebrations like that can do. I really hope that through that, a family member or someone, a friend, is like, “Oh, wow. This is very strange. This is not like the normal weddings that I’ve been to.”
So, anyways, that’s been good. But, yeah, just like you with your church, and probably you with the church, as well. It’s the fall season, so it’s lots going on. But anyways, I’m doing really well. Thanks for asking, Josh.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, hey, you’re really welcome.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. That’s good. So, in front of us are these little pieces of paper, with topics. So, Josh-

Daniel Markin:
The bowl of questions.

Isaac Dagneau:
Bowl of questions. So, we’re just going to rapid fire. And yeah … Let’s just do it. Just open it up and let’s see. So, Joshua is going to open the first one, and we’ll see.

Joshua Scott:
Okay. Are we ready?

Isaac Dagneau:
I don’t know.

Joshua Scott:
Oh, wow. Okay. Is there another podcast that you would recommend? Anything you’re listening to now?

Daniel Markin:
This is actually a good discussion, because I go through … So, for me, for podcasts, I definitely go through phases where I listen to … often times I’ll go like a lot of theology podcasts. Right now, I’ve been listening to a ton of NFL podcasts, which has been so much fun. I’ve never done that during the season but I love watching NFL and I love cheering for the Seattle Seahawks, but as I’m at the gym, I literally just am listening to people give game recaps and talk about the league and it’s actually … it gets your mind out of study mode and gets your mind out of just doing theology. When you work in a church and you’re doing your masters, that can surround your world so much. I found it really relaxing just listening to these guys talk about the NFL. So, each one’s like an hour long and they come out like 3 times a week. That, for me, is what I’ve been listening to and I would recommend it. It’s called Around the NFL.

Isaac Dagneau:
Around the NFL. Okay

Daniel Markin:
And these guys just sit around, and they talk about it and they work for NFL Network. But, if you enjoy sports, sports radio is a nice place to have a brain break in that sense. I highly recommend listening to that.

Isaac Dagneau:
Okay. Well, thanks, Daniel.

Daniel Markin:
Josh?

Joshua Scott:
Alright, that’s cool. I love to always keep myself listening to sermons. It’s just something both for my own soul to be constantly hearing the Word, because it’s one thing for me to be reading the Word in the morning and that is such a fruitful time. It’s another to get in my car and hear someone preach the Word to me and apply it to my life. So, Martin Lloyd Jones, the preaching of Martin Lloyd Jones, his sermons are all … There’s the Martin Lloyd Jones Institute, they put out all his sermons that they’ve recorded, and he was a great preacher in the 20th century, in the 1900s there.

Daniel Markin:
He was one of the prominent ones in England.

Joshua Scott:
Prominent. Absolutely.

Daniel Markin:
He’s a Welshman.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
He had a really strong ministry in Wales. And then, ends up in Westminster Chapel-

Joshua Scott:
That’s right.

Daniel Markin:
Just a short walk from Buckingham Palace.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah. Very cool. He’s just a brilliant preacher. He had this passion both for doctrinal clarity that Christianity is a content of doctrine. It’s truth but, at the same time, the sense of experiential, the reality of Christianity. To be born again is to enjoy a thriving spiritual life. And so, you listen to him, and you kind of get the sense that he’s a little monotone.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. I’d like to draw your attention to …

Joshua Scott:
Absolutely!

Daniel Markin:
In his Welsh, and the audio … It’s funny because I listen to it, it’s the MLJ Trust Sermons. And they have … it’s the audio from the 1950s-60s, crackly…
As we return to the Christian Scripture …
And it comes through just the one earphone.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, yeah. Totally.

Daniel Markin:
Sort of idea.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah. But, anyways, his preaching to me is incredibly valuable.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s cool.

Joshua Scott:
I love to keep myself in sermons through the week. So, that would be the first one I’d recommend and keep listening to.

Isaac Dagneau:
I enjoy the Ask Pastor John Podcast. So, yeah, for those who don’t know, it’s John Piper and they started this … I don’t know. I’m not sure when they started. I think 2012, or something like that, they started … and then I think they come out two a week. It’s very simple. Just … yeah, people ask questions through the email to John and then, he’ll answer it. And they’re usually about 12 to 15 minutes, pretty short, but it’s great because one day it might be a very theological question about whatever, I don’t know, something about the Trinity or something about like Christian Hedonism, which John Piper’s famous for.
But then, the next week it could be something about … well, what do we do about Santa Claus, and whatever. So, it’s just great. It’s really good. So, I enjoy that. I, also, listen to sermons, and I’ll, also, thinking of what you were saying, you have these fads of … just binge listen to certain things. So, I’ve been listening through David Platt, McLean Church, going through the traits of Biblical Church. 12 traits of Biblical Church. Doing that.
I, also, was going through Preaching and Preachers when Martin Lloyd Jones came to Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia and did a lecture on What is Preaching.

Daniel Markin:
They had that in audio form?

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
Wow, because that became the book, Preaching and Preachers.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, so they have it in audio form and it’s just excellent because he’s not preaching. He’s just-

Joshua Scott:
Right, it’s just a lecture.

Isaac Dagneau:
-lecturing to students and it’s awesome. He had a huge just reverence for the Word of God and for the Spirit. That documentary, Logic on Fire, that explains what you said, it’s a logic he believes but, it’s on fire. It’s like, yes! And you can listen to that-

Daniel Markin:
Yeah. The thing with Lloyd Jones, he’s so humble. He’s so humble. I think the temptation for every single person, who is a Christian, is you study Apologetics and then, you’re just foaming at the mouth, excited to get into a big debate with someone.

Isaac Dagneau:
Right.

Daniel Markin:
For him to be like, no, it’s not the point of this, sometimes is really … that challenges me, for sure, because I’m the type of person who wants to learn, store all the knowledge and then, just obliterate somebody.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Markin:
But, that doesn’t help them.

Isaac Dagneau:
No. Yeah, that’s good.

Daniel Markin:
That’s not necessarily building the Kingdom. You’re not going to win somebody to Christ through just intellectual dominance. It’s a good challenge.

Isaac Dagneau:
It is. It really is. Yeah. Daniel, do you want to take one?

Joshua Scott:
Question number two.

Isaac Dagneau:
Let’s do it.

Daniel Markin:
Let me hit a question. Issac, what’s one of your favorite parts about indoubt, being that you’ve been here since the beginning. And then, Joshua and Daniel, what has been a highlight for you since joining the indoubt team?

Isaac Dagneau:
Okay, one thing would be its connectedness to the greater ministry of Back to Bible. I think that just creates a solid foundation for the ministry of indoubt. So, having John Neufeld, the Bible teacher here, to be able to run things past, to participate in things that indoubt does and stuff like that. Just having someone that’s just been through a lot, I think that makes it more credible. I think it makes it more … just founded and established, rather than just if the three of us were just in my basement trying to talk about stuff. It’s like, okay, this is structured in a greater group, so we have more accountability, which is very, very important, that we’re not just going off of what myself and Daniel and Joshua believe. But, it’s like, okay, what we say will affect the reputation of Back to Bible.
And, Back to Bible has been around since … in the States, it’s been around for 75 years, in Canada like 60, something like that. So, that’s one of my favorite things about indoubt. Yeah.

Joshua Scott:
I would say two things. First, I have loved working with a team of people who are onboard with this mission, that the idea of engaging with difficult questions, meeting with guests from all over the world and talking them through. To be working with a team, who’s good at what they do, and passionate about what we do, like you guys. That’s been a great privilege. I’ve really enjoyed that.
Second thing would be just the opportunity that it presents me to engage with topics I wouldn’t talk about. You mentioned this in one of the earlier podcasts that we were in together, but the opportunity to sit down, even this afternoon, or this morning. I was interviewing Craig Douglas, who’s the Director of Timberline Ranch Camp. We were talking about a Christian’s responsibility in the discipleship of kids. And not just your own kids, but there’s kids in the church. There’s kids in the families around in your community. Should I feel some responsibility to engage with them and disciple them? And, that’s a big question. I don’t know if I would necessarily get there until, maybe, preaching through the Word and come to the passages that speak on it. Unless, suddenly, I’m just presented with that conversation to do so.
So, I’ve enjoyed that.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, that’s good.

Daniel Markin:
One of the highlights for me has been, with Back to the Bible being such a strong place of teaching of the Bible, right? Where that’s the main thing, everything else that we do comes from that framework. So, you know no matter what, whoever we’re engaging with, that the scripture … We’re not straying away from what the Bible would say, but it’s always coming back to what it would actually say.
So, one of the highlights has been feeling like, “Man, we have endless possibilities that we could do with the indoubt podcast, with Back to the Bible and engaging people.” And, knowing that no matter what we do, the Word of God will be completely on display and there’s no shame about it. So, for me, I guess the dreaming and the vision stuff as we are planning and doing stuff with indoubt. The people we get to talk to, man, it’s-

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, it’s awesome.

Daniel Markin:
It’s really great and-

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, huge privilege.

Daniel Markin:
Seeing that this is such a good resource for young adults. I wish I would’ve … You were talking about podcasts. I wish I would’ve listened to the indoubt podcast when I was … I am a young adult still, but you know what I mean? You’re definitely like … Well, when I was-

Joshua Scott:
Before you were married?

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, before I was married.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s right.

Joshua Scott:
Okay. Isaac, you’re up.

Isaac Dagneau:
All right. Let’s do this. Picking out another thing here, piece of paper. What is one book that you would recommend, or that you are reading right now?

Joshua Scott:
Oh. Okay. All of Grace by Charles Spurgeon. First book that comes to my mind every time somebody asks me of a book that I should read. It is Charles Spurgeon, simply laying out the gospel, the free offer of grace that is to everybody to receive, and it is such an excellent book. Every chapter …
I got it for Christmas last year, opened it up, I couldn’t put it down. I finished it in two days.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s awesome.

Joshua Scott:
For anybody, if you’re a Christian, you know the gospel, to be reminded of the gospel with such an urgent plea, even for the Christian to remind themselves, this is the glory of God that He sent Jesus Christ. And then, for the non-Christian, it is such a powerful plea with the reader as he writes. He says, “Will you not accept this?” It’s just such a good book. So, that’s the first, immediately comes to my mind. All of Grace.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s awesome. One book that I’ve found very encouraging and very uplifting was the autobiography of George Muller. He was in Bristol, England and he set up these orphanages, infant orphan house, male/female orphan house, and the autobiography is basically his journal entry. So, he was always writing in his journal, constantly.
What I love about George Muller, two things. One is his just dedication to holiness and godliness. When you read through his … For instance, one of his journal entries begins with him talking about how he was reading, but he was really cold as he was reading, so he got up to a different place because he was so cold and then, later on he just felt convicted about complaining about how cold it was when he should’ve just been reading the Word of God.
And when I read through, I’m like, “Wow.” And then, his theology of sleep and how important it is, in terms of getting up early, and spending time in the Word of God and things like that. So, it just totally broadsides so much of us and our us centredness when it comes to what we need and our rights and, “Oh, I need my sleep” and “Oh, I need this …” It hits you in the side of the head and be like, “Wow, here’s a guy that was just like, you know what? What’s more important is waking up and eating the scripture.”
And then, obviously, he’s famous for his prayer. He decided, if you don’t know, if you guys knew about this, but he never once made known their needs as the orphan house, whether they were out of coal or bread or milk or whatever. Him and his staff would get together constantly and just pray. The testimony is that every single time they were in literally utter poverty, God will provide through a miraculous way.
So, he based his whole ministry on prayer, which just … when I first read that a few years ago, just struck me. My wife and I are going through it again. I love that book. If you just want to be inspired by the power of God through prayer, that’s a really … And, it’s fun to read because his journal entries.
It’s fun to read journal entries, and they’re short. Short little journal entries. It’s fun.

Daniel Markin:
You feel like you’re getting … Like, he has a different seven journal entries.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Markin:
Okay. I got two recommendations that I have. One that is a Christian book and one that’s not.

Isaac Dagneau:
Oo.

Daniel Markin:
So, the-

Isaac Dagneau:
NFL podcast, non-Christian books.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, seeing a trend here. Diving in the secular here, my friend.
So, the book that I would recommend that is a non-Christian book is a book called, Amusing Ourselves to Death, written by Neil Postman. He wrote this because leading up to 1984, right. Everyone was reading George Orwell’s book and terrified that 1984 would come to pass, right? That there would be this government that would be restricting everybody. Big Brother, listening, you can’t watch this, you can’t do this, right? And you can only read this, and-

Isaac Dagneau:
Censorship.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, censorship. So, people were terrified about that. And the whole premise of the book is he said that 1984, the year came and went, and nothing happened. Society continued as it went. And he said, but there is actually a darker, more sinister prediction that was made by a guy named Aldous Huxley, 70 years earlier, or something like that, where he basically said, people are so worried about there being no more books, that are being read, that people aren’t going to be allowed to read books.
Huxley’s prediction was that people will become so entertained that they won’t even want to read books, right? They’ll be so distracted that they won’t even care to read books. And so, his whole book, Amusing Ourselves to Death, is built on the premise that George Orwell was wrong. But that Aldous Huxley was right.

Isaac Dagneau:
Interesting.

Daniel Markin:
And so, he unpacks that and goes through how we move from a society that was very literate, right? If you look at the history of the new world in North America, an enormously literate place. Everybody read books for a long period of time. But now, we get bored of Twitter.

Joshua Scott:
Totally.

Daniel Markin:
Another book that I recommend as a Christian book is not a very well known one, but it’s called Tasty Jesus. And this guy’s name is Bryan Hurlbutt, he’s a friend of mine, pastor in Salt Lake City. He wrote a book based on the five Jesus’ that he sees in America, often times. They’re all named after a food, right?
You have the Cream Puff Jesus, which is the Jesus of liberalism. You have the No-carb Jesus, which is the Jesus of fundamentalism. The Smorgasbord, which is the post-modern Jesus, where it’s a buffet. He has two other ones. But, he, basically, breaks down all these different Christianities, right?

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
That you see, and he says how each one of them actually isn’t the true one we need. If you want to have some sort of history and background of Christian thought and how certain trends come about, Tasty Jesus. Recommend it.

Joshua Scott:
Interesting.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s awesome.

Joshua Scott:
Very cool.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. All right.

Daniel Markin:
Josh, dip your hand in the bowl. Okay. Here’s a good one. What’s one thing that you think young adults are struggling with today?

Isaac Dagneau:
It’s hard because you don’t want to paint a too large brush. We don’t know everyone’s hearts and their minds and the things that they are going through, but, generally, I might want to say, with caution, that perhaps just a struggle with just disciplining themselves to godliness. I think. I don’t know if you guys would agree with me, but I just catch that vibe that a passion for a holiness that’s not just a legalistic kind of thing, but a holiness that’s rooted and founded from the gospel is something that, I think, many young adults struggle with.
And, part of it’s because of where we live. I seriously, in North America … Yes, there is physical poverty in North America. Absolutely. But there’s many that aren’t, but the spiritual poverty is very, very large and I think that’s partly because we are just inundated with material things, just constantly. And transportation and all these different things that allow us to always have something to do, that always seems more fun than going to your room and reading the Bible. Right?
And, I’m not saying that’s the only form of spiritual discipline, I think there’s spiritual discipline that you can do with others and things like that. Absolutely. But I would think that’s just one thing that we struggle with is just an actual passion, a zeal, a want to want God, so much so that you’ll sacrifice this for that when it comes to that. But, anyways, what do you think, Josh?

Joshua Scott:
My first thought when I think of a Christian young adult, I think of, maybe, a lack of taking our spiritual lives seriously. I think this is a very similar point to what you just said. One of the things that I struggle with, and I think maybe this is every Christian, but maybe it’s just me, I don’t know. I struggle with my prayer life.

Daniel Markin:
Josh, it’s just you.

Joshua Scott:
Is it just me?

Daniel Markin:
You’re the only one.

Joshua Scott:
That’s not as encouraging as I was hoping for. But I was reading Martin Lloyd Jones and he makes this comment where in one of his lectures in Preachers and Preaching, how prayer is one of the key indicators of your spiritual life. If you look at your prayer life, you look at the quality of your prayer life. And then, he says in one paragraph, he says, “I don’t know whether this means that I’m struggling spiritually or not, but sometimes, often I wake up in the morning and I struggle to pray.”
I found that encouraging. So, Daniel, Martin Lloyd Jones-

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, you have Martin Lloyd Jones on your side.

Joshua Scott:
I’ll take it. But, to be able to look and actually say, “Okay. Am I struggling spiritually?”, And being able to seriously accept it if I am. To not brush it away and say, “It’s not something I want to deal with. God’s grace, God’s grace, God’s grace.”
Yes, absolutely God’s grace. But, to be able to seriously look and say, “Okay, but He has given me this blessing of a thriving life with Him, a reconciled relationship. Am I enjoying that? Am I even honouring him in the way that I have accept this gift? Am I throwing it away? What am I doing with all of these privileges?”
I see that in myself, so I wouldn’t be surprised if others, maybe, feel the same.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, I was going to add one thing to the prayer item as I think we can fall to the routine of praying and then, it turns into a works righteousness thing, where we think that I’m not praying enough. I’m not a good enough Christian. And, that’s totally a really discouraging thing that I’ve had in my life, where you’re like, “Man, I haven’t been praying. I must really be struggling.” And then, you begin to, “Well, I’m going to pray more. I’m going to do this more, do this more,” and you try and do it out of a place to please God rather than knowing that God, He just loves you, regardless.
I think that quote by Lloyd Jones saying I do need help, I am struggling, is so true to everyone. Even surrounding prayer, this humbleness that … We’re all a disaster, in different little ways and at different seasons that looks different for everyone, but ultimately, we just need the simple prayer of just calling on God in this moment like, “Lord, I just need you through the day. Holy Spirit, give me strength to continue through this.” Right? Those are the types of prayers that God loves too.
I would say the thing that young adults, I think, Christians and non-Christians are really struggling with is loneliness. And we’re more connected than ever. We have more social media connections than ever, right? We know what everybody’s doing at every different time, but we’re so lonely and the literature, if you read any books on it, if you read studies on it, young adults are so lonely. And, they don’t have community. They don’t have people they’re gathering around frequently, and often times, it’s a lot of sitting on their Instagram, watching other people hanging out and being like, “Why wasn’t I invited to that?”
Or, there’s other studies where they were like lots of young adults or high school kids are texting each other saying, “Hey, what are you doing? What are you doing?” And everyone’s trying to figure out what they’re all doing, so they’re not left out, but they’re just sitting at home alone.
Loneliness is something that’s just so prevalent in our culture and this is just where I love the local church. The local church has existed since the beginning as a place of gathering and community because in your prayer life, doing that alone, while it’s a discipline that is a good thing, just going it alone your entire life, you won’t be able to do it. You cannot do it alone, right? Finishing the race of faith, you will not finish that race alone.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. It’s good.

Daniel Markin:
And so, the church is a place to gather and be with other people. You pray together, right? So, if you’re someone who’s like, “I’m not praying a whole lot.” You know what? Go into a Bible study and you know that you’re gathering with other people, you’re going to actually end up praying. You implement that into your schedule, that becomes a discipline, right? But, doing it together, hearing the Word together. The thing that is such a big deal is our culture is struggling with this lack of purpose, this lack of I don’t know anyone, I have no one who cares about me and the local church… finding community is one of the things that is such a big thing. I would just encourage every young adult, who listens to this, find a community, find people who are chasing after the same God that you are, right? And, just get around them and share a life together, and it’ll change you.

Isaac Dagneau:
Feel good? Okay. Let’s do it. What do we think about online dating?

Joshua Scott:
Oo. Now there’s a good question. That is actually a very good question.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, my sister and husband met each other through eharmony.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, same with my sister.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, there you go.

Joshua Scott:
Or, sorry, my brother in and sister-in-law.

Daniel Markin:
Same with me.

Isaac Dagneau:
Oh, yes.

Daniel Markin:
I was a …

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, that’s right.

Daniel Markin:
I met my fiance online.

Isaac Dagneau:
Okay.

Daniel Markin:
On Bumble. I’m all for it. I’m so for it.

Joshua Scott:
I’m surprised.

Daniel Markin:
The reason that I’m really for it is because I think about it like this, we’re in the modern world and everybody has an online presence in general. But the way I see it is almost like a dating app, whatever, it’s like an advertisement, right? As people are swiping left or right or whatever it is, you have the opportunity to meet people that you would usually just never meet in general. And so, that’s exactly like … My fiance was living in North Van, but somehow, we connected online. I probably never would’ve met her. It was funny, though, afterwards, we realized we have all these mutual friends. So, there’s maybe a slight chance that we would’ve, but I’m all for it.
One, because it worked for me, but two, I see it … it’s free advertising because in the same way, you could say, “Oh, that’s really shallow. You’re just only looking at their looks.” But, at the same time, if you show up to church function, you’d be like, “Oh, I’m attracted to that person”, right? It just so happened that we crossed paths.
Well, I view it the same way. It just so happened that you crossed paths online and what matters, ultimately, is that you do connect and meet and then form your relationship around Christ. But, as an on ramp, to make that happen, I’m so for it.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. I was going to say it was the looks of my wife that made me go talk to her for the first time when she was in the library.

Joshua Scott:
Well done.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s just all it was. What else is there at that point? I know it’s terrible to say that, but then, as you start talking like, “Oh, I actually love this person by who they are.”

Daniel Markin:
Totally. Because looks aren’t everything, but looks, definitely … You want to have an attraction to the person.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
And that looks different for everyone. Everyone has different … That person’s like, “Oh, that person’s so attractive,” and the other one’s like, “I just don’t see it.” Right? But then, they’re attracted to someone else, who is completely different.
So, we’re all wired differently in that sense.

Isaac Dagneau:
Sure.

Daniel Markin:
But, again, because I think we often diminish the thing that attraction plays into. It is part of the relationship.

Isaac Dagneau:
Ask you this, then, on the dating software that you used, two questions. One, how much information did you plug into for the person to see and then, how did that affect your guys’ first meeting when you’re like, “I already know all about you,” kind of thing. How did that work?

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, so we met on an app called Bumble, and there was not much information there. The thing that was critical, though, is you can have a little bio, you can tell yourself a little bit about who you are. But you can put what religion you are in there.

Isaac Dagneau:
Oh, okay.

Daniel Markin:
And so, my fiance, when she saw that I’m a Christian, right?

Joshua Scott:
That’s two things. You’re a Christian and your hair.

Daniel Markin:
Right. And I had some long hair-

Joshua Scott:
Sold.

Daniel Markin:
And she’s like, I want some of that long hair and he’s a Christian.

Isaac Dagneau:
Wow.

Daniel Markin:
You get to have a little bit of a bio there. So, it wasn’t like-

Isaac Dagneau:
It wasn’t going to effect it, in terms of and make your-

Daniel Markin:
No, but someone could even have that, “Oh, they’re a Christian.” You meet them and they’re like, “Oh, yeah. I go to church on Easter.” And you’re like, “Are you …” You know what I mean? Or, “I grew up as a Catholic.” They could put that, but it’s not a good indication of their actual faith walk.

Isaac Dagneau:
Sure. Okay.

Daniel Markin:
In that sense. So, that’s again, where I’m all for online dating for the initial contact, but then, actually getting to know the person. You got to do that in person.

Isaac Dagneau:
One on one. Yeah. That’s good.

Joshua Scott:
One of the things that I had to wrestle with as I was meeting Chelan, well I’d known her for three years, but as we started up this conversation about being more than just friends, I came to this conclusion, as I searched the Scriptures, that marriage is a calling. It’s a calling to represent Christ and His Church. It’s what it is. It’s what it’s been from the beginning. And so, when I established that, I begin to shape this idea of dating, that dating is simply my exploration and my affirmation of that calling with one particular person. So that as I pursue dating somebody, I’m actually exploring whether or not God has called me to marry this person, right? So, that you have this framework of saying, “Yeah, okay. Yes, God has called me to image Christ and Cis church with this person.”
Or, “You know what? I’m getting the sense that God isn’t calling me here.” So, I think online dating sites can just be a tool in that process.

Isaac Dagneau:
I was going to say, though, that’s so good. Now, people are listening right now, maybe they’re married, and if they didn’t do that, what kind of encouragement could you give them that they’re already committed now-

Joshua Scott:
Totally, totally.

Isaac Dagneau:
But, that was not their way into it?

Joshua Scott:
Well, yeah. How do you know if you’re called to marry somebody while you’re married to that person. You’re called to marry that person.

Daniel Markin:
That’s now your calling.

Joshua Scott:
Exactly. Your calling now, for the rest of your life, is to imitate Christ and His Church. You’ve made a covenant and that covenant, the way you live within it is going to reflect the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s so right. Yeah.

Joshua Scott:
So, yeah, when you’re married, you’re in it.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. I love it.

Daniel Markin:
One of the images I thought was so helpful, looking into dating and then, marriage now, is the idea that you have two runners, right? And you have people who are running after Christ and as you look around you, as you’re running your race, you’re looking around. And as you’re running, you might be like, “Oh, that person’s cute.” Right? And then, you want to run over next to them and talk to them.
But then, you’re like, “You know what? They maybe aren’t running the same speed as I am.” Or, “We don’t really have much in common,” or something.

Joshua Scott:
Sorry, I’m faster than you.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, sorry, I’m faster. But, there might be people who … Actually, they stop running. You know what I mean? I think in marriage, the image that has been so helpful is you want to find someone that you’re running and you’re running and you’re running beside you’re like, “Whoa. I want to keep running beside you.” Actually, let’s keep running. Let’s run the entire thing together. We’re going to the same destination, so you link together and you make that covenant that we’re going to finish the race together.

Isaac Dagneau:
Together, yeah. That’s awesome.

Joshua Scott:
Another question?

Daniel Markin:
Come on.

Joshua Scott:
Okay. Here we go. This is going to be the best one. Maybe. What was a specific time that you had questions/doubted your faith and what did you do about it? Days of doubt.

Daniel Markin:
I’ll go first, man. The first time that I really had a lot of questions was in grade eight because we did a class … I was at a public school, but we still did a unit on the world religions. And so, that was the first time, and I grew up in a Christian home. My dad’s a pastor, but the first time that I had … Whoa – there’s all these different religions. What do I do with that? And, are they all true? Why did these people … Are all the Muslims in the world, are they wrong?

Joshua Scott:
Right.

Daniel Markin:
And I remember I had a … My dad took me to Red Robin and just began, just talked through it with me. But, that was the first time that I was like whoa. Is this all … I just remember from there it’s been slowly … to fight that off or to grow my faith ultimately. I had to find the answers to that. And some of that comes through reading and listening to podcasts and stuff. But, that was a time where I was … How did the question put it?

Joshua Scott:
That you doubted your faith.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah. I was like … definitely a doubt there. I’m like, wait a minute. There’s other beliefs. And so, I have to actually … and not that doubts are … Doubts can be really helpful because that actually propelled me into going deeper and saying, “No. I will be a Christian.”

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
Right? It was a really … Yeah, in eighth grade. Or grade eight, as we say in Canada.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, that’s right.

Joshua Scott:
How about you, Isaac?

Isaac Dagneau:
For myself, well, one … There’s two things I’ll say. One, was after … I think it was during grade 11 or grade 12, or 11th and 12th grade, and that was definitely a time where … But, it wasn’t … Yours, it made sense. You were thinking about Muslims and everything. For me, I was just thinking about myself. At that time, I just wanted to party and have fun. I just was like, “Oh, I don’t think it’s real.” And then, I just doubted. But, I was just more rebelling in that season.
But, I would also say this, that it can happen all the time, doubting my salvation, even up to this day, basically. It can happen more or less all the time, and I joke with my wife sometimes about it. I’m like we joke about a certain recent year. I was like, maybe I was saved then, because I just don’t know.
Growing up in a Christian home, you guys were both grew up in Christian homes, I don’t know if you guys have a conversion moment. I don’t. I have no idea when I was converted. So, it always makes me bed the question like all throughout my Bible college years, I’m like, “What was I doing this for?” Where was my motivations? What were my intentions? And all that kind of stuff.
But, what really helps … So, I just want to let everyone know who’s listening, I can struggle with doubting my faith a lot. Maybe not to a degree that’s like, I’m going to leave the church kind of thing, but just in little ways here and there. So, don’t hear my wrong there.
But, one thing I always come back to, it’s just so helpful is I’ll ask myself, “Isaac, what do you most desire? Do you desire to know Christ? Do you desire to commune with Him and abide with Him in a way that you never have before? Do you want to commune with Him in a very strong way?” Like a branch to the vine kind of thing. I’m always like, “Oh, yes. Yes.” And I’m like, “If I was not saved, then that would not be a desire that I would have.”
So, I’ll always come back to that. And I’m like, that’s right. That’s so good. So, anyways, that’s what I will say. What about you, Josh?

Joshua Scott:
Yeah. That’s good. I have a very similar story to you. I look back and I was raised by some very godly parents. But, through my young life, when I was in elementary school and high school, yeah, I sure didn’t live like I believed God was who He says He was and He sent His son to do what He did.
So, I would say that in terms of doubting my faith, it’s never been, like you, Daniel, an intellectual sense of, well, there’s all these other options. How can I be sure this is the right one? I’ve never come to that because there’s just been a conviction. I think by my parents raising me up in the instruction of the Lord, and this is God’s grace. You have to say that. I’ve never doubted that.
But, I sure have doubted myself, time and time and time again. And that I would say the same thing, there’s never been a moment in my life when I knew … I look back and say, “That was the moment.” A few that I wonder.

Isaac Dagneau:
Sure.

Joshua Scott:
But, I think it was the Puritans who would say that sometimes it would simply be the soft light that becomes brighter and brighter and brighter as you go, right?

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s really good.

Joshua Scott:
God does it when He does it. He births you again. You’re a new creation and you just kind of discover it, but along the way, that’s a bumpy road because you come face to face with your sin and you think, “Well, how could I possibly be saved if that’s what’s going on in my heart right now?”
And then, you come face to face with it and then, you come back to the grace of God.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. That’s so good.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, I think, to that because I have a similar story, growing up in a Christian home, didn’t really have a massive rebellion phase, but … And so, that was always a hard thing, being like, “Man, my testimony …”
You hear people have really crazy testimonies. Walked away from the faith.

Isaac Dagneau:
Listening to NFL podcasts.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah, yeah. It’s a slow fade.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, listening to NFL podcasts. Yeah, but people who … that they have a real dramatic story and they come back. Their testimony of how God worked in their life is incredible. We can all think of those people in our minds, right? Whether it was drug addiction. Now, they’re a believer and they’re clean or something.
And, I would look at my life and be like, my life was just … I was a Christian. I never really rebelled and I was like, “Did God really use my story?” But, I actually learned that it’s also grace, the fact that I’m a Christian, in the sense that if you look at the prodigal son story, right? I’m the older brother. They have the younger brother, who runs off and has this crazy lifestyle, and actually comes back.
But, the older brother stays and he becomes this legalist and he does all these things to earn God’s favour, and it’s only by grace that the rebellious, but also the righteous, let’s say, or that the legalist person, they only come to believe out of grace too. So, it’s by the grace of God that I’m not a Pharisee or however you want to call it, right?

Isaac Dagneau:
Sure.

Daniel Markin:
Ultimately, it was the grace of God in pulling me and saving me from that fundamentalism and that legalism and bringing me to grace. So, whatever the testimony is to anyone listening, you could’ve really wandered off, or you could’ve been near. The fact that you are close is … It’s grace on both sides-

Isaac Dagneau:
It’s all grace.

Joshua Scott:
Absolutely.

Isaac Dagneau:
About a year ago, on the indoubt podcast, we had a guy named Derek Rishmawy on, he’s author blogger and when I asked him what his testimony was he said the highlight of his testimony was 2000 years ago, Christ on the cross. I just never heard that before. Someone just saying that the highlight of my testimony, I was expecting like, “When I was 22 years old,” and blah, blah, blah.
But, it was actually was Jesus on the cross, the grace, which I was like, “Oh, that’s really good.” So, it levels us all out. We all have the same testimony in many ways.

Daniel Markin:
Okay, I got another question here. Okay, here we go. I’ll pull one out. What are you most excited for during the Christmas season? This is going to be the first Christmas that my fiance and I will share being married, so I’m just excited to figure it out. It’s now you’re merging two families, so we’re going to spend some time with my family and we’re going to spend some time with her family. We’re going to spend some time together.

Joshua Scott:
I’m excited to just navigate all of that, but really, it is family for me. I love my family. I’ve been very, very, blessed. Both with my own parents, but also with Chelan’s parents. They’re a godly couple. And so, I’m thoroughly excited to just be with them and enjoy the season with them.

Isaac Dagneau:
Cool. That’s awesome.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. If I’m incredibly honest, I’m excited for just time off. I know-

Joshua Scott:
I respect that.

Isaac Dagneau:
-you were going to say that too. Okay. It’s true. I’m really excited. I’m going to try to take as much time as I can off, which I’m just really looking forward to with my family and I also love family and my family’s just … I’m so blessed, so grateful to God for my family, so we’ll hang out with them. Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
What I’m most excited about during the Christmas season, I love feasting. Do you know what’s really cool?

Joshua Scott:
I’m sorry did you say fasting?

Daniel Markin:
Feasting, dude.

Joshua Scott:
Oh, I’m sorry.

Daniel Markin:
There’s times of fasting, there’s times of feasting, but I think as Christians-

Isaac Dagneau:
Sounds like Ecclesiastes, right?

Daniel Markin:
Exactly. There’s a time … Often times, I think, if you look through the history of the church. When they feasted, dude, they were doing it out of a real celebratory time. And so, gathering around a table and eating awesome food is such a way to actually spend time in community with one another and it’s such a unique time to remember Christ.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
And so, when you feast at Easter, right? It’s a celebration and Christmas, I think, it’s a celebration and so, I always look forward to the different cheeses that I didn’t know existed. But, Christmastime, there’s all these different cheeses coming.

Isaac Dagneau:
Totally.

Daniel Markin:
And trying all those and eating food, man.

Isaac Dagneau:
That’s awesome.

Joshua Scott:
That’s very cool.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah.

Isaac Dagneau:
That sounds great.

Joshua Scott:
Very cool.

Isaac Dagneau:
Anyways, let’s wrap this up. What’s coming up for indoubt? What are some conversations that you guys have had, which are going to be coming out soon? Or, conversations that you know are going to happen and this, I guess, be after this comes out, so into November or December.

Joshua Scott:
I’ve got a couple podcasts that I’ve recorded. I met with Mike Sambrook, who’s an executive coach here, down in the Lower Mainland, British Columbia. We just had a conversation about spiritual growth. How do I, as a young adult, plan, look 20 years, 30 years, 40 years down the road and say, “I want to be a man of God?”
How can I stand right now and make decisions in my life to get myself on the trajectory to be there? So that I’m not looking and saying, “That’s a pipe dream. Hopefully, I’m there one day.” And do nothing about it.
So, we were talking about just tangibly that and then, I also chatted with Craig Douglas, I was telling you about. And we were talking about kids. How does a Christian engage with kids? So, I’m excited for both those conversations that you’ll be hearing pretty soon.

Isaac Dagneau:
Cool. Yeah. That’s awesome.

Daniel Markin:
So, the ones that I just … we recorded one recently with Mark Sayers, who’s a cultural writer, based out of Australia. And so, us being two Commonwealth countries, Australia and Canada, similarities differences.

Joshua Scott:
We get along.

Daniel Markin:
Yeah, man, that was a really good conversation.

Isaac Dagneau:
What did you guys talk about?

Daniel Markin:
Oh, dude, you’ll have to listen to the podcast.

Isaac Dagneau:
Okay.

Daniel Markin:
Isaac.

Isaac Dagneau:
Sounds good.

Joshua Scott:
No sneak previews here.

Daniel Markin:
No sneak previews. Dude, we talked about similarities, we talked about the … how we operate in a post-modern world and even a tad of Pelagianism and how that affects us today, as well as cultural outrage. Have a conversation coming up with Jon Tyson, who’s a pastor in New York City. So, looking forward to that one, as well.

Isaac Dagneau:
Nice. That’s awesome. Yeah. Coming up talking with Tony Reinke, who actually hosts the Ask Pastor John podcast.

Daniel Markin:
Dude! You’re going to … Yeah, you get to meet Tony.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. So, he’s written a book, a couple years ago … 12 Ways Your Phone is Changing You. So, he’s very much a technology guy. He’s just written another one called, Competing Spectacles, I think it’s called. So, anyways, we’ll be talking about how to be a faithful Christian in the digital world. Anyways-

Joshua Scott:
Cool. Very cool.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah. I’m excited. Anyways, that was really fun.

Daniel Markin:
That was fun.

Joshua Scott:
That was fun.

Daniel Markin:
Should do it again some time.

Isaac Dagneau:
We will. We will do it again. Thank you, Kourtney.

Daniel Markin:
Dude, 200 episodes, man!

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Joshua Scott:
Crazy. I feel like I’ve only been here for 15.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
Or less. But, Isaac, you have been here … very long time.

Isaac Dagneau:
With a small hiatus, yes.

Joshua Scott:
The sage.

Daniel Markin:
Small hiatus.

Joshua Scott:
The sage among us.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yes. But, we should thank Kourtney.

Joshua Scott:
Yes.

Isaac Dagneau:
She is the one that sets us all up with all these different people and everything. So, she’s awesome. So, all of you listening, that’s awesome.
And you hear her at the beginning and at the end of the podcast. And Chris, right? The man behind the glass.

Joshua Scott:
Legend.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah, he is. His wife babysits my daughter every week. So, I’m very thankful for their family. But, anyways, that’s not the point. That’s irrelevant. So, let’s just say goodbye.

Joshua Scott:
Yeah. Thanks for listening.

Isaac Dagneau:
Yeah.

Daniel Markin:
Thanks for listening. Sign of with a … [humming].

Kourtney Cromwell:
We had so much fun with this episode and I hope that you laughed, at least, a little bit and found some encouragement through this silliness. Let us know what you think of this episode and if there’s anything that you want us to go more in depth on, shoot us a message on social media or email me at info@indoubt.ca.
On next week’s episode, Joshua sits down with executive life coach, Mike Sambrook, talking about spiritual growth and discipleship. So, I hope that you join us then.

Kourtney Cromwell:
Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes and Spotify, or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.